I don’t think you can hold it against Laver that he was in his prime before the Open Era. That argument actually works in his favour. He won 74 titles during the Open Era, while not in his prime – almost as many titles as Federer, who has played exclusively in the Open Era. Laver also won every slam in 1969, at a point where you suggested he was becoming irrelevant. By comparison, Fed has only won ~2 slams past age 28.
I am not holding anything against Laver. He is an exceptional tennis champion. I just do not think that he belongs to the Open Era. The Open Era began in 1968. He was extremely relevant in 1968 and 1969, but he never won a major beyond 1969. In fact, he did not even make it beyond the quarterfinals of a major after the 1969 US Open. To me, he is the greatest pre-Open Era champion, but he does not factor among the Open Era greats.
Fair enough. It’s hard to compare champions from different eras. Would Gretzky score 215 points in today’s NHL? Absolutely not… defenses/goaltending are way too good. It’s far easier to compare Fed/Djokovic/Nadal, even Sampras. I just think Laver deserves to be mentioned in conversations of the GOAT, if such a concept has any merit at all. He dominated his era like no other player ever has.
As an aside, do you think Fed '05/06 beats Djokovic '15? Let’s say over an 8 match series, all surfaces.
I agree that Laver has a rightful place in tennis history, and it is significant. I just think that the Open Era tennis is a clear departure from Amateur/Professional Era tennis. I don’t think it is possible…or fair for that matter, to have a GOAT conversation that goes back to the 1920s or 1930s. I think the 1920-1969 era belongs in one conversation, and the 1970-present era belongs in another. Laver is the GOAT in the 1920-1969 era, and Federer is the GOAT in the 1970-present era.
As for Djokovic 2011 and 2015 vs Federer 2005 and 2006, who knows. I think those four year belong among the best of all time. What makes Djokovic 2015 so exceptional in my opinion, is his record in the Masters 1000 series (where he made it to the finals of all 8 events he played in and won 6 of them) and against top 10 players (31-4).
Bumping for start of Austrialian summer!
@Tiredofsnow, going to Hopman Cup this year? I’m watching Aus/Ger right now.
Just got home, eb!! Nick K behaved himself and didn’t act like a pork chop - he was quite charming. That German kid was really impressive, too. We had great seats; tomorrow night we see Great Britain vs. France. Monfils was supposed to come but he’s been replaced. I haven’t seen Andy Murray play before so I’m looking forward to that - the players are pretty relaxed in Perth so I hope he won’t be moping around the court like usual. It’s hot here - close to 100 today. The roof was open so the players were in the sun the whole time.
Did NK win? I fell asleep after the second set and when I woke up Llegs had just lost. Watching a first round match from Brizzie now (tape delayed.) I love the Austrailian summer!
Have fun tomorrow! I don’t know if Andy has another personality beside mopey.
Are all the spectator seats in the shade. It looks that way on TV.
No! Yesterday when we got there for the 10:00 a.m. start there was a whole section that was in the sun and their fans were waving furiously. I noticed several people moved out of the sun into shaded empty seats. The sunny seats were right behind the chair umpire, through that whole section. It would have been brutal - we were briefly in the sun last year so I brought my hat and extra sunscreen just in case.
NK did win, so did his partner, Daria G???ova who just became an Aussie citizen. We left before the mixed doubles ended but evidently Australia swept. I watched LL lose and the first couple of games of the women’s last night (Australia v. Czech Republic) then turned it off. I think both Aussies lost singles so the mixed would have been dead.
We will see the USA vs. Czech Republic on Thursday but I think the US plays their first match during the daytime today. We have some cloud cover this morning so maybe they’ll be spared the intense sun for a while.
The Arena’s roof does close and they had one side more closed than the other yesterday. By the time we left the sun was creeping into our section, down at the bottom. We walked to the Arena and back so by the time we got home it was a long, hot day.
Camera angle is from baseline which is probably why I didn’t see anyone sitting in the sun. I saw Daria’s match. Was surprised Lisicki played so poorly. I kind of figure NK would win after the 6-1 second set.
I have women on from Auckland at the moment and once this is over I’ll watch HC.
Hope you have another great day at the tennis!
Thanks! I thought Lisicki would win easily. Not sure if she just got to Perth; she sat with the ice towel around her neck between changeovers.
Serena bagged her first match, which was this morning (citing knee inflammation, thinks she’ll play vs. Aus. tomorrow night). Duval (?) 20 years old, just returned from lymphoma treatment? played in her place (and lost). Sock/Dogolopov are on now but Sock lost the first set, then I turned it off. Much cooler at the moment with the clouds.
I expect GB to win handily tonight with Gael Monfils out. At least the Aussies have two teams to cheer for!
I fell asleep right after the ladies played so didn’t see a minute of Dog/Sock. I would stay up and watch more of the matches if I was at home and not sitting in a hospital all day (my mom took a horrible tumble and broke 5 ribs.)
It’s exhausting.
I felt sorry for Duval being put in that position but I suppose any match play is good for her at this point.
Is this the first year there are two Aussie teams? I don’t recall that being the case before.
I’m so sorry about your mother, eb.
Just got home from Great Britain/France - the Andy Murray match was a mismatch to say the least; Heather Watson and Caroline Garcia went 3 and Garcia won so the doubles was live, but we left before they started - my H gets up for work at 5:30 so by 9:30 he had about reached his limit.
Yes, first time that I know of that Australia’s had two teams, not sure if LL’s impending retirement has anything to do with it, but it seems the field is a little weaker this year - last year Alize Cornet played for France, Safarova was here, etc. and Kyrgios was supposed to play but I think he was injured. It’s a nice little tournament, the players seem relaxed, and I think they said tonight it’s been going on for 28-29 years.
Murray wasn’t too mopey since he wasn’t having any trouble. He was stretching out his hips a little bit but when asked after the match he said it was just because it was the first match of the year. I figured he was doing it so he’d have an excuse if he started to lose…ha ha.
Best wishes for your mother and I hope you get some rest.
I’m watching Garcia/Watson now. Men’s match was a snooze.
Agree with your assessment of Andy’s “injury.”
My mom is doing much better ( she fell on the 26th) and is already on the rehab floor and getting PT. It was a freak accident - she didn’t realize there was a step down to a patio, lost her balance and fell into a marble pillar with a stone planter for a base. Punctured her lung, too. My sister is flying in today to lend a hand as its exhausting running back and forth to visit, along with taking care of her dog - and her friends don’t stop calling me for updates! The
Fortunately she has no other medical issues so it just getting her ribs healed. Takes a long time though.
Sorry @emilybee; my father broke two thoracic vertebrae this past summer. Healing from this type of thing in one’s 80s is slow.
^ yup, I know. Trama surgeon told me 3 to 6 months. Hoping it’s closer to the three months and fortunately she was in great shape before this - walks a 15 minute mile every day - so that should help. But it is what it is.
@emilybee, hope all is going okay with your mother…and that you’re getting some rest…
The Aussies (Kyrgios/Gavrilova) won the Hopman Cup yesterday - first Aussie win since 1999. Both in straight sets, although G. was down 6-1 in the second set tiebreak and somehow came back. Nick was serving well but has some weird lapses - concentration? trying to entertain rather than win the point? - and Dolgopolov was missing a lot of first serves but generally winning more of the rallies. Svitlina was the Ukraine woman and she was good, really good backhand.
Don’t want to spoil but I see the Djoker/Rafa match has finished. And our Federer still to play, fingers crossed.
Hope all is well.
My mom is doing better every day and now that my sister is here too it’s not as exhausting as we are sharing hospital visit duty. I even got in a doubles game with a friend from home Thursday morning and spent afternoon at pool today. I’ve been falling asleep most nights befor HC starts but caught a bit if the mixed dubs on the repeat today. Very nice that Aussies finally won after so long.
Going to watch today’s matches in a bit. I don’t think TC is covering Doha but my money is on Djoko winning that encounter.
Great update, eb! Glad to hear your mom’s on the mend. I can’t watch Roger’s matches until I know the result :).
I guess you you didn’t watch. I fell asleep. Just checked the results. Supposedly Roger has the flu. 
No, we went to Sunday evening Mass and by the time we got back I think it was over - I did check the score. I think I probably feel worse for Roger than he does - he seems to get over it fast, and I guess if you’re still making the finals that’s pretty successful?? I just want him to win them ALL until he retires!!