<p>It’s a dumb test “the way it is used now” (as I stated above) because it is vulnerable to thousands of dollars and hours of test prep, as well as accommodations.</p>
<p>It was not a dumb test the way we all took it back in the dark ages, before test prep or accommodations. Then the scores probably meant something.</p>
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<p>Is there anything else in a complete application that is it is vulnerable to thousands of dollars? Are we supposed to overlook the differences between high dollar private schools and public schools or poor private schools? Are we supposed to overlook the availability of tutors throughout K-12? Are we supposed to overlook the “purchase” of the EC that happen to be the flavor of the year, starting with music and art classes all the way to fancy travel abroad disguised as community service? Are we supposed to overlook the multitude of summer camps for the “gifted?”</p>
<p>Here’s one reality: the SAT might indeed be a divider between the have’s and the have not’s, but it is to a MUCH smaller degree that all the other dividers caused by different level of income and parental education. For the record, I student can do WELL or extremely well when measured against his or her REAL peers with nothing more than an access to the local library and the desire and willingness to practice. A student living in the poorest part of an inner-city or in Bumpkinville, SD can use the SAT to vouch for his or her high school grades, and without having to score a perfect 2400. For many a really competitive SAT or ACT score is the best way to grab some limelight. </p>
<p>The SAT is not a dumb test; it’s a test that is prone to be misunderstood by people who are not in the profession of evaluating candidates to a college.</p>
<p>newmassdad: an average kid, no matter how long he pondered a challenging reading comprehension paragraph, would never get the right answer. In a sentence completion, she could stare at the choices for hours but if she didn’t know the vocabulary, she is not going to answer correctly. </p>
<p>A bright kid with a learning disability will get the right answers if given the right accommodations. </p>
<p>There is a difference between a kid who makes careless mistakes and a kid who makes errors because of a learning disability. There is a difference between a kid who reads on a 10th grade level and a kid who reads on a college level but is a slow reader because of a processing issue.</p>
<p>Some people here seem to assume that kids with learning disabilities are by definition stupid, or at least of below average intelligence.</p>
<p>Every parent and teacher knows that all kids have “asynchronous development” with some skills developing before others. When kids have grown up the skills are still “asynchronous.” Some adults have more ability in certain areas than others. Asynchronous development does not mean there is some magic formulae which will allow kids to develop more evenly nor does it mean some special accommodation is needed. It does mean that teaching should be geared towards the ability of the student. When it is time for assessment, the measures should be the same for all.</p>
<p>It is comforting to believe that some people with handicaps have other abilities which compensate, unfortunately that is rarely the case and no more likely than for individuals without handicaps.</p>
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Epiphany, that’s not how CAT exams work. When I graduated from nursing school, we were the first class to use CAT technology for the NJ nursing boards. Previously, they were a nightmare to administer, taking a full weekend (with great expense to all) down in Atlantic City. The CAT technology does cut out sections, but only after enough “easy” questions have been succesfully answered. The level of difficulty increases, but the sharp test-taker simply cuts his or her time at the computer down. I passed the licensing exam with only 75 questions. Yes, the ones I was being thrown were the toughest, but I would have eventually gotten to them if I were taking the paper & pencil variety anyway. The computer was able to assess that I knew my stuff & it was pointless to torture me any longer. Had I been answering questions incorrectly in great numbers, the computer would also have shut off at question #75, but it would have been a flunking situation. The computer in that case recognizes that the test taker has no chance in hell of answering enough questions correctly to achieve a passing score.</p>
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This is the part about that article that got me nuts. There is NO WAY that extra time on the SATs would not help EVERYONE! You can argue, perhaps, that the SAT doesn’t predict college success. But you can’t argue that extra time, expecially in a math section, would not improve one’s scores. I know that I would have scored higher on every single math test I ever took in my entire life if I had a bit of extra time to check for careless errors. Or if I had time to read a comprehension paragraph a second time to find the nuances that would break a “tie” between two similar answer choices.</p>
<p>I noted that it was just presented as a fact, with no documentation or studies to back it up.</p>
<p>It’s possible that there are different flavors of CAT tests. When it comes to the GRE, the first questions of each section are NOT easy, but are of average difficulty. </p>
<p>Based on your responses, you will be presented with questions of increasing difficulty if you’ve answered correctly. Otherwise, if you answer incorrectly, you will be presented with questions of lesser difficulty. As you go along, your next question will be the one that best reflects both your previous performance and the test design.</p>
<p>On a practical note, the GRE is not as forgiving as the SAT, which typically starts with easier questions, allows you to pass and come back, and allows you to take a look at the hardest questions. On the GRE, it is extremely important to score well on the first questions as it is extremely difficult to overcome a bad start as answering easier questions in the latter stages account for little gain.</p>
<p>The difference between a kid who is “gifted” or even above average, and has an ld, and a kid who is “average” and has an ld, is that the kid who is brighter has more awareness of his difference. By definition, he is more frustrated because of the gap between his cognitive ability and his performance. He is more likely to beat himself up because of his deficits. These are kids we’re talking about: they do not have the perspective to say “ah, all people have their weaknesses and that’s life.” There is a real danger that these kids give up and their potential to contribute to society is lost.</p>
<p>In my experience, these kids do not walk around saying “I’m better than everyone else, I’m gifted and the only reason I am not doing well in x,y,z subject is because I have a learning disability”–far from it. They understand that their deficits for all intent and purposes cancel out their “gifts” and they are simply happy to be able to be allowed into the game. This is the purpose of accommodations. </p>
<p>I have a hard time understanding how anyone could resent kids being given the chance to work to their potential in the areas of their strength.</p>
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<p>SS, the article quoted in the OP is a biased and misleading OpEd masquerading as a well researched article. </p>
<p>It would be very interesting to read a follow-up article in four years from now. I doubt that it will ever happen.</p>
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<p>Are people resenting the accomodations or the potential for abuses that resulted from the elimination of the flagging of some tests? </p>
<p>This is not a black and white issue: every account of a student who has been discriminated because of LD is easily matched by a story of someone who worked the system via well compensated but accommodating professionals. Do we really need all that methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine which is produced?</p>
<p>edad:</p>
<p>Several years ago, I was in touch with a teacher about education. A few months into our correspondence, she found out that her child was partially deaf. She thought she knew her child well, and the discover floored her. But after her initial surprise, she realized that she’d never found out about her child’s deafness because her child had learned to compensate by always facing her interlocutor–something she could do at home, in one-on-one conversations–and reading lips. Once she was in school, she could no longer compensate for her handicap and thus did not seem as bright as what her teacher mother thought. But after accommodations were made for her deafness, her schoolwork shot up, and her mother’s earlier evaluation of her giftedness were confirmed. </p>
<p>Many gifted kids are gifted in one area more than in another. If they have learning disabilities, they compensate for that disability and thus often mask it. In the giftedness literature, this is called dual exceptionality. If, thanks to these coping strategies, they are not considered eligible for accommodations, none will be offered. This is too bad because their gift is not properly addressed.
Dyslexia is not the same as simple carelessness, though it takes extra carefulness and effort to read words and numbers correctly, so that “saw” does not become “was” or vice-versa. It is more like being partially deaf, or being short-sighted and astigmatic (as we discovered I was when I was 13). But it cannot be accommodated with a hearing aid or a pair of glasses.</p>
<p>xiggi, your description of the GRE matches the nursing bosrds. The first questions thrown out were average level difficulty, and the subsequent difficulty levels were based on how well the test taker was doing. You could be over & done with 75 questions, or dragging out the experience with hundreds of questins if you were a borderline candidate.</p>
<p>It’s been 30 years since I looked at an SAT math section, but I’d imagine it includes some very, very basic arithmetic. What is the point of having kids sit through that if CAT technology could shorten the test by hours?</p>
<p>I have a ten year old with ADD who is eligible for extra time on standardized tests. I have no idea if he’d qualify for the SAT accomodations. He has cross-dominance (couldn’t decide if he wanted to be a righty or a lefty) and this GREATLY slowed down his ability to master writing & penmanship. He writes & throws lefty, shoots hockey, bats, & plays lacrosse righty. I still make him do all math problems on big squared graph paper, or he’s liable to make a mess of it & have columns wandering all over. Hates the physical act of writing, yet teachers love his inventive & creative stories. Also great at grammar & spelling & vocabulary, but puts his head down and groans whenever writing assignments are due. So I understand how frustrating that asyncronous development can be & how helpful accomodations are to bring out a kid’s talents. But I am also turned off by the phoney accomodations so many are jumping on. I’m torn.</p>
<p>marite, I know quite a bit about LD due to personal experience. I have a fairly severe learning deficiency which I rarely discuss. I cannot do simple arithematic. I know maybe 1/3 of the times table up to 9. I have tried many, many times, even as an adult, to learn the times tables and I have made absolutely no progress. I cannot do simple addition for the same reason. Of the single digit combinations I have learned/remember maybe a half of the sum table. In order to multiply numbers I go through all sorts of work. For example, I cannot learn the product of 7 x 8. I do know 7 x 7 = 49 and I know that the results will be right if I add another 8. I do not “know” 9 + 8 or 49 + 8. I would do this by adding a 10 and counting backwards twice. I can also add 8 by counting as I use my finger or a pencil to count the corners of a square twice.</p>
<p>Sometimes dealing with my deficiency has been very discouraging. I don’t believe I have some special gifts which compensate for my deficiency. I have never received or expected any special accommodations. I was still able to earn a doctoral degree in the sciences and that was before the era of pocket calculators. I know a lot about compensation.</p>
<p>Re Post 109,</p>
<p>The article is not masquerading as a research study. It is an account, a narrative, illuminating the process & the absurdities therein.</p>
<p>I guess I am not too compensated. I did not pay that much attention to my example. I would need to add another 7 to the product of 7 x7.</p>
<p>edad:</p>
<p>Do you have dyscalculia?<br>
There are some disabilities for which it is possible to find compensatory techniques–as you did; and some for which the compensation has to be external. And sometimes, you don’t realize that you have a handicap. I used to complain that the teacher did not press hard enough on the chalk. That was until I got glasses for my astigmatism. But it’s gotten worse, and glasses only partially compensate. At a distance, I cannot see the difference between various numbers and letters. Luckily, this does not affect my reading most of the time, but I cannot be trusted to read road signs well enough until I’m so close to them that it’s not terribly helpful.</p>
<p>It’s not unusual for kids not to speak about their ld’s; in fact I’m quite sure it’s the norm. Kids with real problems do not go around talking about them. Anyone who thinks that kids enjoy being different doesn’t know kids. Now their mothers–that’s another story. :)</p>
<p>“At a distance, I cannot see the difference between various numbers and letters. Luckily, this does not affect my reading most of the time, but I cannot be trusted to read road signs well enough until I’m so close to them that it’s not terribly helpful.”</p>
<p>I have a similar problem, and Times New Roman font 12, which is my company’s preferred, is a nightmare for me. Sometimes I have to place a straight edge between the individual letters in a word so I can distinguish them. Use another font and I have a much easier time, although distance is problematic for me, too.</p>
<p>From page 6 of this article:
<a href=“http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:pUP3khBrFd8J:www.aera.net/uploadedFiles/Publications/Journals/Educational_Researcher/3401/2672-02_Sireci.pdf+Willingham+(1988&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=11&gl=us%5B/url%5D”>http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:pUP3khBrFd8J:www.aera.net/uploadedFiles/Publications/Journals/Educational_Researcher/3401/2672-02_Sireci.pdf+Willingham+(1988&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=11&gl=us</a>
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<p>From page 8:
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<p>“Sometimes dealing with my deficiency has been very discouraging.”</p>
<p>^ as has been true for many physically disabled people before the modern age, with technology, research, inventions - has begun to enable them to achieve in the world, to earn decent livings, without the more severe level of discouragement they once experienced as the stuff of their daily lives. </p>
<p>But LOL, I guess we should make those people learn the hard way and teach them a thing or two about how unfair accommodation is. After all, they’ll learn much more if they have to overcome even more obstacles in life.</p>
<p>(No, they’ll just be more discouraged, that’s all. The more persistent, determined ones will press on & may eventually come close to their goals, but with much wasted time & energy in their lives. Their success will be delayed & possibly incomplete. Personally, I’m immensely grateful for modern accommodations to those with physical disabilities, because I strongly suspect that many of those people have contributed in some way to the betterment of a society that I live in & enjoy.)</p>
<p>Interesting how willing most people are to <em>see</em>, to <em>accept</em>, and to be generous about physical disabilities, but not other kinds. </p>
<p>And the notion that anyone aware of a deficiency, or a disability, is walking around assuming that he or she has “compensating gifts,” based on that deficiency, is a bizarre notion.</p>
<p>The sense of being different that a gifted student has, esp. a young one, is more painful than pleasurable. Overall, it is not fun being gifted unless you are mostly relating to others like yourself, who are not forever excluding you, feeling threatened by you, resenting you, & confused by you.</p>