<p>I value the Fifth Amendment highly; many people have been induced to falsely confess under police questioning. But I’d still prefer not to have people rub my nose in the fact that they have committed a crime and not 'fessed up, which is, after all, the right protected by the Fifth - and I wouldn’t brag about how many people in my community do so. I think that’s the parallel we’re talking about here. People who carry guns in stores (in my area, anyway) are making a statement which I find creepy and narcissistic. I wouldn’t brag about having a lot of those folks in my town.</p>
<p>“It is our constitutional right not to incriminate ourselves. Doesn’t make me angry in the least. It is the obligation of the prosecution to show evidence of a crime.”</p>
<p>When someone pleads the 5th it has nothing to do with the evidence the prosecutor has shown. </p>
<p>The witness is simply refusing to answer the question(s) under oath. </p>
<p>It’s not something people usually brag about doing either.</p>
<p>Exactly. And not just creepy and narcissistic – but hair-trigger temper, too. If you’re both reaching for the last bottle of shampoo on the shelf, you better let the gun-holder have it because you wouldn’t want him to get all enraged and shoot you, because he’s a Big Guy With A Big Gun.</p>
<p>Not quite. Pleading the 5th is to refuse to answer a question because the response could provide self-incriminating evidence of an illegal act. You don’t have to be under oath to invoke the protections of the 5th Amendment. An officer questioning you can lead to self-incrimination. With an officer most people simply remain silent. It is the same thing. The point about the prosecution is that you are not obligated to assist them in their prosecution by giving evidence against yourself. </p>
<p>How is it bragging to state that I value this right and have taught my children about it?</p>
<p>Oops, back a few pages I made a comment about “urban” violence. My personal image of “urban” is “city”, which does not include the surrounding suburbs. Many posters pointed out my error. Sorry. </p>
<p>Far, far up thread, people were posting about the multiple causes of gun violence. Here’s one recap of a study that has been replicated across many countries, areas, cities and neighborhoods, linking increases and decreases in criminal violence to lead in the environment. More specifically, to lead in gasoline. A spike in violence occured worldwide twenty years after the inclusion of lead in gasoline, and dropped twenty years after lead was/is removed from the environment. Lead seems to affect the young, developing brain the most, thus the twenty year lag. There are many, many issues wrapped up in the issue of gun violence, and why it may be more concentrated in urban (city) areas.</p>
<p>Mother Jones: America’s Real Criminal Element: Lead</p>
<p>“You don’t have to be under oath to invoke the protections of the 5th Amendment.”</p>
<p>Point taken. </p>
<p>However, it is also equally true that people plead the 5th under oath so as not to incriminate themselves, and it’s not something many go around bragging about. </p>
<p>But, maybe people who walk around carrying guns are more inclined to brag about pleading the 5th under oath in a court of law if they found themselves in that situation.</p>
<p>Speaking stereotyping, I see some on this thread, similar to a kid and father have been in an accident and the surgeon says I can’t operate on my own kid and people go who can that be. </p>
<p>Sounds like dragonflydragon is a woman who carries?</p>
<p>Well, in the interest of an open discussion, and not being disrespectful, I have to say I think I would feel very uncomfortable in a store with other people carrying guns around. I just would.</p>
<p>Of course you would. It’s not the norm in polite, civilized society to walk around carrying a gun (unless you are a security guard, policeman or in some other position of authority where carrying a gun is appropriate). It’s like the rural equivalent of walking around with your pants slung off your hips. Covering up your own insecurity by trying to be a Tough Guy. Difference is, no one dies if some thug wears his pants low.</p>
<p>I’m now multiple people? It is bragging to respect the 5th Amendment, to know the purpose of it and to be willing to use it? </p>
<p>Your are darn right I would never incriminate myself. Are you telling me you would? So when the police officer pulls you over to give you a ticket you will freely admit you were spending and/ or anything else you may have done wrong? Seriously?</p>
<p>And for the record- I’ve never been given a ticket.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is not normal where you live but it is fairly normal where I live. And YES I live in a city. Just a couple weeks ago I was standing in line in a walmart behind a young black man with an openly carried gun. He bought his groceries and left.</p>
<p>Well, actually, the last time I got pulled over, the first time in maybe 15 years, I was lost and driving a rental car and I apparently did something that was disconcerting to the other drivers. I can’t remember what it was. But, I couldn’t find the lights in the rental car, and my own lights at home just go on or off themselves. So, the police officer pulls me over and says, "You were driving erratically and you did___________, and your lights aren’t on.</p>
<p>I said, “I know. I should have pulled over. I would have pulled me over, too. My Gps isn’t working and could you show me where the lights are?” I didn’t get a ticket. </p>
<p>The last time my husband got pulled over, the police officer said, “Do you have any idea of how fast you were driving?” He said, “No, but I’m sure it was too fast. I’ve been driving for five hours. I’m sorry.” He didn’t get a ticket. The officer just told him to slow down and sent him on his way.</p>
<p>I’ve never been given a ticket, either.
So, why lie?</p>
<p>“Are you telling me you would? So when the police officer pulls you over to give you a ticket you will freely admit you were spending and/ or anything else you may have done wrong? Seriously?”</p>
<p>I have been stopped for speeding and admitted it. It usually goes something like this…“yes, officer, I know I was speeding.” </p>
<p>And while I agree we have the right to plead the 5th, I can’t imagine bragging that I invoked the right to do so.</p>
<p>I think remaining silent at a traffic stop is really strange, personally, though I have taught my kids not to speak to the police without an attorney present. I don’t put traffic stops in the same category.</p>
<p>Oh well. Its quite possible there are people walking around carrying guns all over the place, as far as I know. </p>