<p>ROFL! The same people who are all about ensuring their Second Amendment freedoms (don’t take my guns, dude) would be hunky-dory if the state came in and shut down a factory manufacturing a currently-legal product?</p>
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<p>We’ve got to make up our minds. Do we think we can prevent gun shooters by not even mentioning their names in the media, or by plastering every aspect of their internal lives across the media? Either way, if he hadn’t had access to guns, the damage would have likely been a lot less. Funny how Western Europe and Japan simply don’t have Columbine, Aurora, Newtown, etc.</p>
<p>“So you were disgusted at the way she exploited the situation to advocate for laws that wouldnt have made the slightest bit of difference in Newtown?”</p>
<p>What makes you think she exploited the situation? Did she force the parents to come on her show? I assume they didn’t have to come on if they didn’t want.</p>
<p>“ROFL! The same people who are all about ensuring their Second Amendment freedoms (don’t take my guns, dude) would be hunky-dory if the state came in and shut down a factory manufacturing a currently-legal product?”</p>
<p>You are know it alls. Don’t know how to regulate them, it is your darn problem.</p>
<p>Stay the heck out of regulating texas. If you dont want our guns figure out a way to stop them once you have outlawed them. It works very well in Chicago I heard.</p>
<p>“It is actually hilarious. There is zero evidence of Texas guns in New York when NY makes their own darn guns. Shouldn’t they stop production before they start blaming a state that is 1400 miles away?”</p>
<p>Any state with loose regulations is a problem, not just Texas. </p>
<p>Do you not believe that guns purchased legally in one state cannot end up in another state? </p>
<p>Do you believe that manufacturers only sell goods in the state where their plants are?</p>
<p>James Holmes was dressed up as the Joker at the midnight premier of the movie. You dont see a connection?</p>
<p>Seung Cho, the Virgina Tech shooter, was obsessed with the ultra violent movie Oldboy and even imitates the hammer pose in the manifesto tape he sent to the news media. See a connection?</p>
<p>Lanza is said to have spent days at a time playing Call of Duty and other violent FPS. </p>
<p>Who is ****ing pretending here? </p>
<p>Nothing I have seen proposed in gun regulation would have made a difference in Lanzas case. So why the laws being talked about?</p>
<p>Oh wait: YOU want to see Django Unchained and Gangs of New York and game of Thrones and YOU dont want YOUR rights infringed on. YOU dont have guns so YOU dont care about that set of rights. </p>
<p>I thought people were going to have to give up their rights in order to keep children safe- what happened to that?</p>
<p>^ Emilybee, we all get it by now that if you aren’t for banning guns than you don’t care a bit about the children slaughtered at Sandy Hook. Only those demanding a plan to ban guns care about the children slaughtered at Sandy Hook. It’s very clear. The media could not be more clear in how they are instructing us on this issue.</p>
<p>argbargy, your post (#977) is so full of logical flaws I don’t know where to start.</p>
<p>The main one, though, is comparing today’s situation to that of 5-10 years ago. NEVER (well, since the Civil War, anyway) has there been such divisiveness as we have now. Never before did we have a 24/7 pipeline of hysterical extremist rhetoric drumming up the base fears of the uneducated and paranoid. And never has corporate influence been so pervasive in the political sphere–just look at what the NRA is doing on this issue.</p>
<p>Some polarization and conspiracy-believing existed in the past, but it reached a fever pitch with the election of our first black president and has only exploded since. The cries to “take our country back” from someone who is “not my president” (and in fact is probably a socialist/communist/Muslim/Kenyan/whatever) are absolutely, 100% connected to the gun debate. Not every gun owner buys this nonsense, but plenty do and plenty are using the current situation to support their personal agendas. Oh, and by the way many of these people also subscribe to “dominionist” ideas common in evangelical Christianity and Mormonism. You should read up on it if you don’t believe me.</p>
<p>“Do you not believe that guns purchased legally in one state cannot end up in another state”</p>
<p>Drugs are banned in US. They have a mysterious way of showing up still and worth billions. You cant talk of effectiveness until you have actually implemented a plan so you can start pointing to sources. Sitting around twiddling your thumbs is height of hypocrisy.</p>
<p>“You are know it alls. Don’t know how to regulate them, it is your darn problem.”</p>
<p>I am fine with having anyone enter my state be required to have a full body search, search of all bags, their vehicles, and whatever else is necessary, including packages from out of state. I am glad to hear you would have no problem if NY or any other state required that.</p>
<p>"You cant talk of effectiveness until you have actually implemented a plan so you can start pointing to sources. Sitting around twiddling your thumbs is height of hypocrisy.</p>
<p>You can’t talk that a national ban on guns - such as they have in Aus/UK - would not be effective here until such a plan is implemented.</p>
<p>emily – do you really mean this or are you being sarcastic?</p>
<p>*I am fine with having anyone enter my state be required to have a full body search searched of any bags, their vehicles, and whatever else is necessary, including packages from out of state. I am glad to hear you would have no problem if NY or any other state required that. *</p>
<p>If you’re serious then I have to conclude that we truly want to live in different societies.</p>
<p>"I am fine with having anyone enter my state be required to have a full body search searched of any bags, their vehicles, and whatever else is necessary, including packages from out of state. I am glad to hear you would have no problem if NY or any other state required that. "</p>
<p>The NIMBY story we started with has a paragraph at the end about rural areas of new york voting out a bunch of people for voting for gay marriage. So your opposition will be all internal to your state.</p>
<p>It’s quite strange, this willingness to give up all of our freedoms. I’m not in that camp. I do think some gun licensing is in order, for the same reason I think driver’s licenses are a good use of tax dollars. I think if you’re going to have a deadly weapon, knowing how to use it is a good idea, personally. Education prevents accidents, and accidents are the one avoidable thing here, imho.</p>
<p>But, I also wonder what is happening when people would give up their rights so easily. I suppose it was bound to happen that American’s would become complacent about the freedoms they fought so hard to attain. But, it’s becoming a sci-fi dystopian novel at this point, the willingness to have our privacy usurped by big brother. The nonchallant attitude some take towards this is alarming to me, and I’m not a conspiracy theorist or a militia person, or a survivalist, either, just an everyday citizen. Commonsense regulation, certainly, handing over the keys to my freedom? not so much.</p>
<p>“If you’re serious then I have to conclude that we truly want to live in different societies.”</p>
<p>Texaspg suggested it is NY’s problem (versus a national problem) to figure out how to stop weapons purchased in one state from getting into another so yes, I am serious. I would prefer a national gun control law but obviously state’s righter’s have a problem with that.</p>
<p>The whole Sandy Hook tragedy is a good case in point of how a certain personality must have a villain for every bad thing that happens. And the sooner the better that the villain is dragged to the town square and flogged. Here it’s the NRA, red necks. the gun industry, blah, blah.</p>
<p>If you don’t join in the flogging then it must mean you don’t care about the victims.</p>
<p>It’s an interesting group think. Powerful, too. Kind of frightening. You begin to see how crazy stuff happens within societies in terms of freedoms, tyranny, scapegoating, abandonment of due process, etc</p>
<p>What amazes me is this readiness in these folks to assume those who don’t share in their blame game must be heartless, must not care about the slaughtered kids. That’s the part I find really stunning – andyes, frightening.</p>
<p>The “Demand a Plan” people scare me a lot more than the NRA scares me.</p>
<p>I am not opposed to any regulations on any activity, per se, if there is evidence that the regulations are effective in achieving a significant purpose and they are not overburdensome in relation to their useful outcome. This is a subjective determination that may ultimately have to be determined by a court in any given instance, as any regulation takes away individual freedoms in various degrees. It is not a conclusion that you or I can draw and be confident that we are right. When you are dealing with abridging Constitutional rights, the regulations are going to have to be extremely well tailored to meet a particular outcome.</p>
<p>Hunter education courses in my area are offered on limited dates and in limited locations (once per month on Saturdays). For someone with a flexible schedule and resources like me, the requirement is not particularly burdensome, although it will consume about 11 hours of my life. For those who must work on Saturdays or don’t own a car, the requirement will be more burdensome.</p>
<p>Well you could start by avoiding the logical flaw of affirming the consequent. “I disagree with all these people therefor they are the cause of the problem they are reacting to”.</p>
<p>First off, the spike in sales starts in the run up to the midterm elections in August 2006 when it looked like Nancy Pelosi would become speaker. Thats two years before any crypto-Kenyan would run for office so your putative cause doesnt hold up. </p>
<p>I have to laugh at your assertion things are more decisive now than ever. They simply arent. After 2004 the there were elaborate electoral models demonstrating conclusively how “Bush stole the election”, and even mainstream charters like RFK Jr and Terse Kerry signed up for them. Daily Kos was filled with threads about how Bush was going to cancel the mid-term elections and move people to FEMA concentration camps. The whole shoe throwing incident became the theme for parties in certain quarters and there are certain sectors still pining away for a war crime trial for George Bush. Jailing someone you disagree with politically is pretty ****ing divisive!</p>
<p>As far as I can see gun owners are justified in their fears. After all the Department of justice was caught allowing assault weapons be purchased by criminals as a pretext for reinstating the ban. And Obama continually uses rhetoric that he plans of moving unilaterally, and probably unconstitutionally, to restrict the rights of legitimate gun owners hat were just decided quite clearly in Heller. </p>
<p>You cant simultaneously be grabbing guns and then say “oh these people are so crazy worrying about gun grabbing”</p>
<p>"The NIMBY story we started with has a paragraph at the end about rural areas of new york voting out a bunch of people for voting for gay marriage. So your opposition will be all internal to your state.’</p>
<p>They voted them out and still the Republican Senate in NY voted for the stricter gun laws. They are free to vote those out next election and try to get the legislation overturned.</p>