<p>^ Right plot points, wrong names. Adeline is the evil twin. Emmeline is the chubby, loving twin who gave birth to a child. Right–Vida is a half-sister, not a triplet. She adored Emmeline and tried to save her from the fire, but in the smoke and confusion, Vida saved Adeline instead (or so the reader is led to believe). After the fire, Adeline no longer seemed evil, just crazy. (Sorry for the non-PC terms, but hey, it’s a gothic novel, so I get a pass.) Vida grew up to become a great writer, caring for Adeline in her home, and always mourning the loss of Emmeline.</p>
<p>That is correct (as Mary13 simplified).</p>
<p>Last night I started re-reading the end of the book. If Vida is a half-sister, that means the twins are the children of isabelle & Charlie? And until Vida took the name of “Vida Winter,” she didn’t have a name? </p>
<p>OK, to reference the book about this (sorry I can’t give page #s – I’m on a Kindle) – I’m at the part where Margaret has just finished reading Hester’s diary, on the train back to Vida’s. She has realized there were 3 girls at Angelfield, and talks about how all the pieces of the story are falling into place/making sense. “Once upon a time there were twins. Once upon a time there came to Angelfield a cousin. More likely a half sister.” </p>
<p>Again, to me, this leaves Vida’s background open to some interpretation. Is that issue ever resolved?</p>
<p>The presumption is that Adeline and Emmeline are the children of Isabelle and Charlie (eww, by the way :eek:). The debauched Charlie also impregnated another, unknown woman. Says Margaret, “Not the daughter of an earl, I think. Or a banker. The well-off have ways of dealing with trouble. She must have been some anonymous, ordinary, powerless woman. Her child was a girl, too. Copper hair. Emerald eyes. Child of rage. Child of rape. Charlie’s child.”</p>
<p>Unable to care for the child, the mother (it seems) abandoned her on the grounds of Angelfield, where John the Dig found her.</p>
<p>Re: CBB’s Question-
Didn’t the lawyer resolve the Vida question?</p>
<p>^ I don’t think Margaret ever got a complete answer from the lawyer. He may have known more than he let on, but in the end, she had to solve the mystery on her own. And Vida subsequently confirmed Margaret’s suspicions about her identity as she finished telling the story of her childhood. Vida finally told the truth about being the third child, although she died before being able to provide Margaret with every last detail.</p>
<p>So how fresh is Jane Eyre in everyone’s mind? Discussion question #8 from the reading guide:</p>
<ol>
<li>It is a classic writer’s axiom that a symbol must appear at least three times in a story so that the reader knows that you meant it as a symbol. In The Thirteenth Tale, the novel Jane Eyre appears several times. Discuss the appearances and allusions to Jane Eyre and how this novel echoes that one.</li>
</ol>
<p>I see lots of parallels: </p>
<p>Unrestrained madwomen - Bertha Mason in JE vs. both Isabelle and Adeline Angelfield in TT</p>
<p>Dissolute, cruel boy, and then man – John Reed in JE vs. Charlie Angelfield in TT</p>
<p>Motherly housekeeper – Mrs. Fairfax in JE vs. the Missus in TT </p>
<p>Hidden, ghostlike family member – Bertha Mason in JE vs. Vida Winter in TT</p>
<p>Hester is a bit like Jane–a no-nonsense governess, having a (unconsummated) love affair with married man, whom she later marries legitimately.</p>
<p>But Margaret is like Jane, too. Calm and sensible, yet pushing her own sorrows deep down.</p>
<p>And finally, Thornfield in JE vs. Angelfield in TT: Both estates are consumed by fire in the climax of the story, and both events include a failed attempt to save another character.</p>
<p>LOL – I’ll take your word for the parallels, Mary. It’s been a-g-e-s since I’ve read Jane Eyre – although I absolutely adored it as a teenager.</p>
<p>Well done Mary!
So do you feel the author copied too much from Jane Eyre, and does this make you think it’s “less original” in your view?</p>
<p>Hmmm….I guess I’m a Jane Eyre junkie. Well, not really Jane Eyre specifically, but 18th and 19th century classics. Don’t even get me started on some of my favorites, like Pride and Prejudice or North and South or Little Women or David Copperfield…I would post forever. :)</p>
<p>I don’t think the abundance of Jane Eyre references detracts from the novel, but I wonder if I am missing something essential. I mean, I recognize the parallels, but I’m not sure if there’s a particular message I should be picking up as a reader. Why Jane Eyre? Was it simply one of Diane Setterfield’s favorite novels? Was it her attempt to both honor and emulate Charlotte Bronte? Or was she trying to make a deeper statement about women’s roles or mental illness or family relationships? On the other hand, maybe all the subtle references were just for FUN. It was a fun book to read.</p>
<p>Taking a different tack…Any thoughts on Discussion Question #2:</p>
<ol>
<li>As the story unfolds, we learn that Margaret and Miss Winter are both twins. What else do they have in common?</li>
</ol>
<p>I’ll have to get to question #2 later, but in the meantime, I had some thoughts about the first question (lack of definite time setting). I thought that the detachment from a specific time enhanced the “tale” character of the “tale,” in the same sense that fairy tales don’t normally have dates. For me, anyway, the absence of date references increased the immediacy of the story–at first, I was thinking of it as set in the present time. I read it just before falling asleep, so if line #2 of the first chapter gave away that it was not set in the present time, please let me know politely! </p>
<p>Many of the circumstances are possible in present-day England. I think I’ve been in that bookshop! But as it progressed, the story did seem to “recede” in time, drawing me along with it. The interactions of the country doctor and the governess strike me as one of the most time-certain elements in the book. References to many specific historical events would have seemed a bit jarring, with the mood of the “tale.” </p>
<p>This book was a lot of fun, as many have mentioned. Will return to question #2 later, if I have anything to add about it. </p>
<p>Mary13, I admire your post #47! 
Very interesting set of parallels!</p>
<p>Going back to the question of when the books takes place – one thing I thought of was the operation required to separate Margaret from her twin. That wouldn’t have happened too far in the past, I don’t think.</p>
<p>Re: Margaret & Vida – love of books is a common link, and to some extent, writing.</p>
<p>Margaret and Vida – each had deep secrets.
Each very lonely in their worlds, few ties with people, but found intimacy in the characters in books. Margaret the reader/ Vida the story maker.</p>
<p>^ Margaret and Vida also both bear physical scars (as well as emotional ones).</p>
<p>You’re right re the operation, CBBBlinker – I looked up conjoined twins and learned that separation operations before 1950 were rare, although not unheard of. </p>
<p>I was just flipping through the book and I think I solved a piece of the time puzzle. When Margaret visits Aurelius, she admires his kitchen: “A massive stainless-steel oven, white walls, two vast fridges—it was a real kitchen for a real cook.” According to Yahoo Answers (not the greatest source, but whatever), the origin of the word “fridge” is from Frigidaire, which began to mass produce refrigerators for homes in the 1940s, after World War II. And I wouldn’t want you to think I was a total geek and looked up the history of stainless steel, but if I had ;)…I would have discovered that it wasn’t used in major appliances until about 1950. </p>
<p>Still, Margaret’s story “feels” older than 1950, which I’m sure is deliberate. </p>
<p>(How can Aurelius afford a massive stainless-steel stove and two vast fridges?)</p>
<p>Mary, from an interview Setterfeld gave in 2006- when asked what her favorite books are-Jane Eyre, isn’t listed.
[Barnes & Noble.com</a> - Diane Setterfield - Books: Meet the Writers](<a href=“http://www.barnesandnoble.com/writers/writerdetails.asp?cid=1573749#interview]Barnes & Noble.com”>http://www.barnesandnoble.com/writers/writerdetails.asp?cid=1573749#interview)</p>
<p>What are your ten favorite books, and what makes them special to you?
My favorite book: The Heart is a Lonely Hunter by Carson McCullers. It is the most perfect book I can remember reading.</p>
<h1>More recent favorites: A Fine Balance by Rohinton Mistry. It is one of the most honest books about human nature I have read, and like The Heart is a Lonely Hunter portrays heroic endurance. Neither of these are books that would be on a list of Margaret’s favourites, I suspect, but her father would love them as I do.</h1>
<h1>Stuart: A Life Backwards by Alexander Masters. An astonishingly moving – and very funny – attempt to understand a man so damaged he seems to defy understanding. I couldn’t stop thinking about this book for days after reading it. It’s a reminder of the fragility of human beings, and at the same time an examination of the nature of biography. No one could fail to benefit from reading this book.</h1>
<p>Writers I want to read everything by: Andreï Makine, W. G. Sebald, and Jim Crace</p>
<p>Early childhood reads that still have a special place in my heart: Emil and the Detectives by Eric Kastner and The Silver Sword by Ian Serraillier.</p>
<p>Best nonfiction read: Alberto Manguel’s A History of Reading. This is one to reread every ten years or so. Manguel’s erudition is wide and deep, but his writing is also immediately engaging.</p>
<p>And I can’t omit Rose Tremain’s Music and Silence. I don’t know how anyone can write something so dazzlingly good as this. Books this good might almost stop you writing altogether. Not only do you catch yourself thinking, I can never write anything so good, but also because a little voice in your head says, why spend time at the computer when you could be snug on the sofa with this? Oh, the temptation!</p>
<p>Mary - #54- great job</p>
<p>SJChessMom, very interesting interview. Setterfield certainly has eclectic tastes!</p>
<p>So many ccers expressed interest in TT, and many of them are probably snowed in watching the snow pile up.
Mary, as a way to get them to participate in the discussion.
How about this easy to answer generic question?</p>
<p>How many stars would you rate TT - 5 stars being highest award? </p>
<p>I’ll start 4 .5 stars. I liked this book!</p>
<p>^ SJChessMom, I think I would rank The Thirteen Tale 4 stars.</p>
<p>But I would probably rank everything we’ve read 4 stars! I have as hard a time ranking books as I do ranking movies in my Netflix queue. I like almost everything, but for different reasons each time.</p>
<p>4+ stars here. I like books that keep me thinking after I’ve finished reading them.</p>
<p>I’m still re-reading the end of the book. Here’s a question I came up with: Why didn’t Vida dump out the cans of petrol that Adeline brought inside, instead of first returning them to the shed and later stashing them in the library? In so many other ways she seemed so mature and capable.</p>