The TRUTH About Law School Admissions

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>Here are my stats so that you have some background. This is all 100% true!!</p>

<p>• 30 Years old
• May 2011 Graduate from the University of Pennsylvania
• BA in Political Science “With Distinction” (Accepted into Poli Sci honors program and had to write a thesis)
• Completed degree in slightly less than 3 years
• GPA: 3.9 summa cum laude – Deans list each year at Penn
• Receiving the Linda Bowen Santoro Graduation Award
• Served in the US Navy attached to the SEALs
• Recommendation Letters: One is from a professor at Penn who is a former cabinet member for Bush and the other is from one of the most reputable Political Science professors in the field who also taught at Yale for 20 years before coming to Penn. </p>

<p>• Now for the kicker — since I did my degree in only 3 years, I made the mistake f onto allotting enough time to study for my LSATs. Needless to say I was very unprepared and therefore received a 151. Not good, but one would think that there would be some balance or consideration given to all of my other credentials. </p>

<p>So, the reason for me writing to all of you today is that regardless of what any dean of admissions tells you when they visit your school, equal weight is NOT given to the LSATs and your GPA!! Ok, I understood that because of the LSAT score I received I would probably not get in the top ten or top twenty schools, but below that, I figured I would have no problem — if that equal weight were given. </p>

<p>Absolutely not! The rejections began flowing in – I also consider a waitlist a rejection because the chances are so slim and you are left waiting until school practically starts. No’s from all of the top twenty, waitlisted at William & Mary, then more rejections all the way down to the 40’s — waitlisted at UMaryland, more rejections, waitlisted at Rutgers and Penn State, rejected from Temple and Villanova, and that was it. Then I shifted my focus, as I realized what was happening, toward tier 3 and 4 schools. I was accepted at Southwestern (the best school so far!) and another kick, WAITLISTED at the Univ of Baltimore. Sad! </p>

<p>The best, most apparent proof I have found (other than my own experience) is on GW Law’s website for their class profile. They accepted 4 students with a 165-169/below 2.5GPA, 1 with a 170-174 and 2 with a 180-175 with the same GPA. Also, for GPA ranges 2.75-.99 they accepted 11 with LSAT scores of 160-165 and 5 with a 160-164. [Entering</a> Class Profile](<a href=“http://www.law.gwu.edu/Admissions/JD/Pages/Profile.aspx]Entering”>http://www.law.gwu.edu/Admissions/JD/Pages/Profile.aspx)</p>

<p>I want you all to take this as a lesson. I learned the hard way – I should have focused much less on my GPA and more on my LSATs! The weight is not equal and even with a near perfect GPA, you need to be in the 160s to be taken seriously. As for me, I am heading to SW Law, going crazy to get a high gpa and then transferring to USC or UCLA. Best of luck to you all.</p>

2

<p>it is not over. I would recommend just sitting out the cycle and not going to law school this year. You can study, retake the LSAT (prep and take the october test) and reapply next year since most schools will allow you to reapply without prejudice. Re work some of your essays perhaps even write a diversity statement. Make sure that your stuff is ready so that you can apply early in the cycle.</p>

3

<p>It’s crazy that a summa cum laude graduate from Penn can’t get into a top 25 school…sad!</p>

4

<p>My kid encountered a similar situation. LSAT score was definitely weighted much more heavily than anything else in his application. If it gives you any comfort, my kid did very well his first year of law school. He was then accepted as a transfer student into two higher ranked schools (including one of the schools you named) that had rejected him initially.</p>

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<p>I think you misunderstood what is meant by being equally weighted. It doesn’t mean that having a high gpa will outweigh a very low LSAT score. It means that both stats are taken into consideration during the admissions process and, usually, that both must be of a certain level to be in a particular school’s ‘ballpark’. A 151 isn’t even the 50th percentile, is it? I think you were overly optimistic about your chances at the top schools. I agree with Sybbie about rewriting the LSAT. Prepare properly and rewrite, then reapply. It’s a better option than counting on a transfer. Attending a Tier 3 or 4 school is a mistake with the state of the legal profession what it is these days.</p>

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<p>I take that with a sigh of relief. I also just spoke with admissions at USC and the Dean of admissions at UCLA. Basically, if you are in the top 5% it doesn’t matter if you are coming from a tier 3 school especially if you have good credentials behind you. The LSAT, they say, is no longer a factor. I will be 31 when I enter law school and to wait another year only makes life that much harder. I am willing to take my chances at transferring — I was doubted by many people about how I would perform at Penn and I am now one of the top 4 graduating students in my class. As long as I keep that determination flowing, I’ll pull it off. Keep your eyes on this post next summer and see what happens. </p>

<p>Thanks for all the encouragement and advice.</p>

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<p>I’m not clear on what makes you think this is not true. If they were weighted equally, you would expect an abysmal LSAT to effectively cancel out an excellent GPA, which seems to be exactly what happened.</p>

8

<p>Try Ohio Northern. It is a great but underappreciated school. US Senator Mark Dewine, several Ohio Supreme Court Judges and former HHS Secretary Anthony Celebrezze went there. ONU has a special program, its summer starter precisely for people like you with low LSATs and high GPAs. Go to ONU. They have a neat duck pond and really good looking t-shirts as well.</p>

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<p>Hi dszaf, in light of your original post I don’t follow the quoted text above? Why would the LSAT no longer be a factor if a low LSAT is what [seemingly] kept you out of the T-14?</p>

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<p>However, one potential pitfall you may face is that 2L OCI (which may determine whether or not you get an offer after graduation) takes place at the very beginning of the term. You will be unranked at your new school with no gpa, which could hurt you when it comes to getting interviews (especially if firms that you are looking at don’t recruit at your tier3/tier4 school. Also if you are doing write on for law review/journal this also takes place at the same time. It is just a lot to undertake on the hope that you will finish in the top 5% (which is not guaranteed).</p>

<p>I still believe that you should just sit it out, study for the LSAT and reapply. If you can hit the 160’s, you would move up into a whole different range of schools, even with $$.</p>

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<p>I completely agree with the comments made by alwaysamom and sybbie. </p>

<p>Transfer students do often face an uphill battle during on campus interviewing at the very beginning of 2L year, particularly if they only grades shown are from a “lesser” law school. Transfer students participating in on campus interviewing at a new law school face other challenges as well because transfers are eligible for, and are not on law review and other journals at the new law school. For transfers without work experience, the uphill battle is even more steep.</p>

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<p>I disagree. While you are sitting it out and taking your LSAT again, you could be on your way to the US Senate or the Cabinet, or maybe just a job at the lcoal DA’s office at Ohio Northen, which also has one of the most reasonable tuitions of any private law school. You would also save a year of price inflation on tuition and living costs that you would have at any school and be full year younger into your career. If someone gets a law suit filed under the bar number of an ONU grad, they are going to respond to the suit the same as if it came in under the bar number of a Harvard or Columbia lawyer.</p>

<p>In the State of Ohiio, the current Attorney General is an ONU Alum and I wager to say that a lot of Ohio State, Michigan and maybe even some T-14 alumns would be very happy to get an offer to work in his office.</p>

13

<p>First of all, thank you for your service. Secondly, I agree with those above that you should retake the lsat after studying/taking a review course and reapply next cycle. I am assuming you are a guy, so 32 vs. 31 when you start law school isn’t as critical as it would be for a woman. Consider applying ED to Michigan for a summer start. There may be other early start programs I’m not aware of as well. If you do well in law school, law firms will eat you up! They love military guys, with your incredible discipline and focus. Several headed sections at my firm. Good luck to you whatever you decide.</p>

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<p>yes, echoing those who suggest re-testing. 32 isn’t that much older than 31 and if you can get your score up more (which I bet you can!) it will make a huge difference.</p>

<p>A friend of mine was in a very similar situation to you except she’d just gone to college and not the military. She was waitlisted everywhere. Her score went up a lot the second time around (though still well under the median–or even the 25th percentile–at any top-30 school) and now she’s at a T14 and doing very well.</p>

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<p>You can’t just work your way into a school’s top 5% – any school’s. It involves a lot of luck, subjectivity, and “click.” Investing a year’s worth of tuition purely for the purpose of transferring is tremendously foolish.</p>

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<p>i’m sure that right now you are anxious to start what you see as the next phase of your life and feel that waiting another year is delaying you from getting there. you feel on a roll from your undergrad success and want to keep that going.</p>

<p>but please stop to think – the decision you make now will not just affect you for the next year – it could well affect you for many years to come. the law school you attend plays an enormous role in the employment market. think about how long you hope to actually be a lawyer once you finish law school. waiting one more year now, could affect how those years end up playing out. be sure to weigh into the equation the effect of any debt you will have to incur to pay for law school vs. the salary you are likely to make attending the law school you end up attending.</p>

17

<p>“It’s crazy that a summa cum laude graduate from Penn can’t get into a top 25 school…sad!”</p>

<p>It’s crazy that a summa cum laude graduate from Penn can’t get into YHS.</p>

<p>Most crazy that such a student could earn an LSAT score that places him in the ~48.1 percentile of test-takers. That a young man or woman of solidly middling intelligence could emerge as one of Penn’s most brilliant graduates–how does that reflect on Penn as an undergraduate institution? On Political Science as a major? On the issue of grade inflation at the undergraduate level? And so on.</p>

<p>Well, in the very least, we know that just about anyone can succeed in college, as long as he puts his mind to it. That, or this is an elaborate flame. In that case, well played, sir.</p>

18

<p>Look man, I’m sorry you couldn’t score high on your LSAT but get over it. Law school admissions is very fair and straightforward in comparison to almost every other type of graduate school.</p>

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<p>Relax. Political science never was the most rigorous major.</p>

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<p>Political science never was the most rigorous major…and law school is? LOL</p>