The typical Dream Private School vs. Cheaper State School Decision (Barnard Vs. UCSB)

College Search & Lists
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<p>I’m deciding between Barnard College in Manhattan, New York and UCSB in Santa Barbara, California. Barnard has been my dream school for a while, and my love for was only reaffirmed when I visited a few weeks ago. The school, as well as New York, is good for my interests which lie in law, film, and more humanities based subjects. Students at Barnard get access to Columbia professors and resources, and typically graduate with 2 or 3 impressive internships under their belts. The problem is that the school would cost me $32k/year, and with the additional living costs and travel expenses (I live in California), would probably come out to about $40k/year. My total budget for college is $150k and I do plan on pursuing either a law degree or MBA. So I have many expenses ahead of me. </p>

<p>My other choice, UCSB, is not necessarily cheap, but would come out to about $20k/year after all the tax breaks/etc that come with being a good middle class student in CA. The school is a typical huge UC without the small class sizes and liberal arts education that I want. Their strengths lie in engineering and computer science rather than the humanities, but their programs in the humanities aren’t necessarily weak. SB is not a big city, so my access to internships would be very, if not completely, limited. I could transfer to USC after a year but that’s completely hypothetical. </p>

<p>I’m not sure whether I should expend so much money now or save it until grad school. I don’t think the prestige of either school is so significantly superior to the other that it will give me a leg up in grad/law/business school admissions. I don’t want to enter debt as an undergrad but it also seems stupid to me to even spend $20k/year at UCSB if I’m not getting much out of it. Then again, I don’t know that much about their humanities programs. </p>

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<p>hoping calmom replies :wink: </p>

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<p>bump</p>

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<p>if I understand you correctly, you would leave Barnard with 48K more in debt. That’s a problem for most middle-class students who want to go to law school. Law schools, except for small ones like Yale’s, don’t think much of internships in their admissions equations. Most ignore prestige also. They emphasize GPA, LSAT, ECs and leadership. Excel in those things and in won’t matter which school you attend. Besides, how can someone not prefer SB sunsets to NYC onsets? I don’t have a horse in this race, except for the sunsets.</p>

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<p>At least for me, the decision between “dream” school and saving money came down to whether or not I would really be happy at my state school. Now, to be fair, I’m from a much smaller state than California and the feel of my instate school is very different than that of UCSB, but I can afford Barnard, and though it will be a stretch I realize that life really is short, and I’d rather spend the next four years happy than hating my life at a school I can afford more comfortably. I think balancing these factors is very personal, and unfortunately, no one can do it for you, but I do wish you the best of luck!!</p>

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<p>LOL - I’m here. My daughter made a similar choice – she also was looking at UCSB vs. Barnard, though there really wasn’t any question. (The harder choice would have been if she didn’t have the Barnard option, choosing among UCSB, UCSC, and UC Berkeley). </p>

<p>The only money issue that we looked at was, “Was Barnard affordable” (to us). There was no question in my mind or my daughter’s that the educational quality at Barnard was significantly better-- I am a a UC graduate, from a campus with a somewhat stronger academic reputation than UCSB, and very definitely my daughter spent her 4 years in a far more rigorous academic setting. On the other hand… I probably had a lot more fun in college. Barnard was not a good social fit for my daughter - there is an east coast / west coast culture clash of sorts, as well a some very stark differences in cultural expectations for students coming from affluent backgrounds and those with a middle or working class upbringing. I don’t know about you – but I think my daughter would have liked the people she would have met at UCSB a whole lot better. </p>

<p>But it makes no sense to spend tens of thousands of dollars in tuition money to fund a social club. My daughter wasn’t going to college to make friends – she was going to college to get an education, and that’s exactly what she got: a superb education. Also a handful of very close friends that she still hangs out with 4 years out. </p>

<p>It sounds like you can afford Barnard. (You said that you have $150K to spend and Barnard will be $40K a year when you factor in additional expenses like travel – but the +$10K is negligible – I’m sure you could easily make that up in earnings or simply by tightening your belt on some of those extras. ) You didn’t say anything about taking on debt for Barnard. What is the source of your college budget of $150K? Is that money in the bank (like a 529 account) – or the amount your parents say they are willing to pay – or are you including loans in that figure?</p>

<p>If there isn’t a reserved college fund – how much of that $150K would be available for grad school in any case. I had no college fund set aside for my daughter and would not have funded graduate school for either of my kids - I’m a single parent and knew that my earning capacity and finances would be different as I grew older. So I told them each that I would pay for 4 years of undergrad only – and only if they completed their undergrad education within 5 years of graduating high school. Year 6, they were each on their own, degree or not. So for them, the grad school thing wasn’t much of a factor.</p>

<p>I think that the maximum reasonable debt for undergrad for a non-STEM major is probably around $25K.</p>

<p>Do you have any idea of what you want to study? I think for an artsy/creative major, Santa Barbara might be better. My daughter was a dancer growing up, but I probably would not have wanted to fund Barnard if she wanted to major in dance. </p>

<p>I would not advise anyone to choose a school based on prestige, but I think you are mistaken about the prestige differential between the two schools – Barnard is quite prestigious among people who know anything about academics. I think UCSB still has a party-school reputation – the UC degree is acceptable anywhere, but it probably won’t impress anyone. </p>

<p>You are right to consider possible future expenses for grad school - but you may also might find it more appropriate to take out loans at the grad school level when they are more closely tied to a career-focused degree. </p>

<p>It’s really a question that only you can answer for yourself – it does depend on what you want out of college, both in terms of the overall college experience as well as the intellectual growth and stimulation. </p>

<p>I would not have been able to afford Barnard for my daughter at the amounts you are looking at – but of course that is probably because your family’s “need” (as Barnard sees it) is somewhat less than mine was. But you are still looking at a financial aid award that is giving you a substantial discount off of the sticker price. </p>

<p>I guess if are asking, is Barnard worth $12-$20K more per year than UCSB – the answer is yes, I think it is - at least for someone with serious academic aspirations, and family able to handle the additional cost without substantial sacrifice.</p>

<p>If the question is – what should you do – then only you can make the ultimate decision. </p>

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<p>thank you all (especially the acclaimed @calmom !) for your feedback. I just finished a conversation with my dad wherein I was informed that only $100k of my education would be payed for should I choose to go to Barnard. I would be responsible, through loans, for about $50k. While I do view UCSB as a big academic and even social compromise considering my personality and what I hope to gain out of college, I do not view the prospect of an additional $50k in debt as a worthy sacrifice. I acknowledge UCSB’s recognition in the sciences, engineering, and accounting worlds, but ultimately don’t think it’s the choice for me. This leaves me with the options of UC Davis (which poses the same problems as SB) and community college (SMC). So my “plan” is as follows: Attend a year at UCSB and try to transfer to USC after one year. If I’m not accepted after a year, study abroad at King’s College or Cambridge for a year (UCSB has fantastic study abroad programs), and apply to UCLA, USC, Columbia, and any other schools as a junior transfer. I would be completing my general classes at SB for a reasonable price while still leaving home and gaining the freshman experience, as well as completing my more generalized upper division classes as a transfer at a school that’s more befitting to my educational needs. Hopefully at least a little of this idealistic prophecy comes true :slight_smile: </p>

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<p>oh meant to say “specialized” instead of “generalized” </p>

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<p>

I’m sorry to hear that – I assumed that when you said the college budget was $150K that the bulk was coming either from your parents’ direct contribution or money already saved up for college. </p>

<p>I agree that $50K of debt is unreasonably high for undergrad. </p>

<p>I always felt that my kids should have “skin in the game” and take loans no matter where they went, but I also felt that the maximum available in subsidized loans was the upper limit. A subsidized loan is interest-free with no payments as long as the student is in school – so to me that is very reasonable - the student doesn’t have to pay until she has the earning capacity to do so. </p>

<p>I really wish that parents would be more clear at the outset about what their expectations are. I understand there is a little bit of wiggle room, but it’s better if kids are pleasantly surprised in the spring when a parent offers to pitch in a little more – than the other way around. </p>

<p>I also wish that parents would have the bottom line financial talk as soon at the financial aid award is available – certainly I did that with my kids. My son was happy to have me open the envelopes that came from the schools – that was in the day before colleges were sending notices by email – and more than once I greeted my son by telling him that there was “good news and bad news” — the “bad” of course being that we couldn’t afford the school that accepted him. </p>

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<p>@calmom I absolutely agree. My parents have dealt with the financial aspect of this experience quite poorly, and that can probably be attributed to the fact that they are immigrants who never attended college, and also Middle Eastern parents who historically carry a lot of pride and have difficulty disclosing the reality of their funds to anyone. They broke the “news” that Barnard is unaffordable to me while we were in the financial aid office of Barnard itself. Just as I was getting misty eyed and emotional about the beauty of both Barnard and Columbia, I received the bad news. I’m still not happy with my “decision”, or the one that has basically been made for me. I do plan on studying something to do with legal studies or film, and I know that NYC and Barnard provide the ideal learning environments for these two interests. The students I met at Barnard and Columbia were driven, ambitious, both street and academically intelligent, and generally the kind of people I knew would be conducive to my personal growth. I can’t with any clear conscience assume that much debt for an undergraduate degree, and also cannot assume that I will go into a field of law (or law at all, for that matter) that will make the $50k in debt reasonable to pay off. The $100k is in savings, but since my parents are both unsupportive of Barnard and hope to build interest on the $50k, they are only willing to expend that much to me. A combination of one or two years at UCSB and one or two at USC would likely amount to about $110-115k total versus about $150-160k. I could go to Barnard and work summers and during the year, but I’m afraid my GPA would suffer. I could also afford Barnard with some ease if I became an RA for three years, but I am hesitant to rely on something I’ve heard is competitive. I don’t see much of a choice here, and I guess I can only hope to make my time at UCSB both brief and cost-effective. </p>

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<p>I would also potentially suffer socially if I attended Barnard. I would be so preoccupied with earning money while simultaneously retaining a high GPA for law/grad school admissions that I wouldn’t have much time to relax or socialize. I really do love Barnard and could see myself making this sacrifice, but again I write this from the comforts of my Los Angeles home surrounded by my friends and family. In a situation where my parents are both 6 hours away and about $600 away, I’m not sure I would be so happy. I feel as though I’m compromising so much by going to UCSB, but hopefully I’ll be able to make peace with my decision eventually. If only Barnard had a grad school…</p>

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<p>School is what you make of it. I bet you will like UCSB, and will end up being glad you didn’t choose Barnard.</p>

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<p>Better if the financial expectations are set before application time, so that the student opening the financial aid offer can know immediately whether the school is within budget or is too expensive, based on the pre-set expectations. Setting the financial expectations before application time also ensures that the student can make an application list considering their likely costs, and choose safeties that are known to be affordable.</p>

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<pre><code> This issue is just as important as your career choice. Your Undergraduate college will set a foundation for your graduate school irrespective of what each school offers, Certainly BC does not offer the same environment as UCSB (academically, access, prestige, etc). That is why it is a PRIVATE- LIBERAL-ARTS-COLLEGE compared to a LARGE-PUBLIC-STATE-UNIVERSITY. Other factors such as:Teachers to students ratio, opportunities for research and internship, TA’s vs actual professors, hundreds in a lecture hall vs smaller class size with less than 30 students…yes it ALL MATTERS but so does the COST.

That being said, the most important decision lies within your FIT & BALANCE. Which one do you feel will serve your educational interest better? Think about your high-school process and the outcome as you applied to college. How much did the type of high school you attended helped or negated your college entrance? Yes college is what you make out of it, but just like in real life, NOT ALL ARE EQUAL.
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<p>If BC is what you would rather attend and be happy, then it makes sense to reach out to the financial aid office, explain your situation to them, ask for any scholarship opportunities that you can apply to now, or after your first year. Remember you can also cut your cost of attendance after your first year by applying to departmental scholarships, becoming an RA which in most schools is an instant free room/board.
In other words, ANYTHING is possible, but you have to make the calls, do the researcher and find WHAT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY. </p>

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<p>CCCO, Barnard only offers need-based aid – so there is no such thing as a “scholarship opportunity”.</p>

<p>Apparently the family has at least $150K of assets available to fund college, but the father is only willing to pay about $100K for the undergraduate education. So it’s pretty unlikely that they will be offered more in need-based aid.</p>

<p>At this point the OP simply can’t afford Barnard. Even if she wanted to borrow, as an undergrad she would not be able to get the loans needed, unless her parents cosigned -which isn’t a good option in any case.</p>

<p>So Barnard is the applicant’s top choice, but her father has taken it off the table, and she will be attending a UC campus.</p>

<p>She will do fine. Her experience will be different than if she could attend Barnard, but she will do fine. Any UC campus will offer her plenty of opportunities.</p>

<p>She wants to go to grad school, either MBA or law. Maybe her parents are exercising some restraint right now in the expectation that they can help her later on. We don’t know. But I do know that if she spends 4 years at UCSB and has good grades and a strong LSAT score, she can apply to and have reasonable chances of acceptance at any law school in the country.</p>

<p>The UC’s have plenty of smaller classes and professor-taught classes – the big lectures are mostly in the introductory level courses, particularly in the sciences. The OP will probably not be taking those courses, and she very likely has AP credits that will enable to her to jump past intro level classes in many courses. For example, when I was at a UC, I signed up for upper division history classes that interested me, but never took any lower division classes. One of my classes had 6 students, all working very closely the professor. I’m 60 years old but I still remember that class, because the prof was having us all do research from primary source material – and it was pretty cool. </p>

<p>When my daughter was at Barnard, she had some large classes and she had to work with TA’s. She had TAs for her foreign language sections, a TA for her stats class, and TA’s leading discussion sessions for some of her larger classes. </p>

<p>There is also one area where Santa Barbara is hands down better than Barnard: the weather. (Perhaps that will bring a smile to her face if there are times she feels wistful about the east coast LAC her parents wouldn’t finance). </p>