"The Whole System Failed Us"

Parents Forum
1

<p>The local newspaper printed a story about a hard working, high achieving student who was accepted to USC:</p>

<p>“[The parents] had hoped that their daughter … would receive grant or scholarship aid from the state or USC.”</p>

<p>When this did not occur, and it looked like the daughter could not attend her dream university, the mother stated that:</p>

<p>"I feel like the whole system failed us … "</p>

<p>Huh? Exactly how did “the system” fail the family? How on earth did we get to the point where a student is entitled to have his/her education paid for by someone else (in this case the state or USC)? </p>

<p>My dream may be to live in Malibu. I have worked exceedingly hard for many years, but alas, I cannot afford to purchase a home there. Has the system failed me? Does Malibu owe me a home? Does the state? Am I entitled to live in Malibu at someone else’s expense? Of course not. </p>

<p>Why should college be an different? Yes, USC is expensive. (Surprise!) If one cannot afford to go there, one should go somewhere else and not blame USC or the state for picking up the tab. Excellent UC schools are available for half of the price at USC.</p>

2

<p>I agree with you completely and 100%. However, you’re going to find that a whole bunch of people don’t. I can’t really explain their way of thinking because I don’t get it, but I think it’s that hard working kids shouldn’t be punished for what their family can afford and they are ENTITLED to a first class education even though their parents can’t afford it.</p>

3

<p>I agree. Did the student apply to less expensive schools?</p>

4

<p>My opinion is that the system is broken, but I don’t think that the system has failed one student simply because she can’t afford to attend her dream school.</p>

5

<p>I completely agree with the OP. I have siblings who have twice the income we do (if not more) and it has nothing to do with the system. The bottom line is that I also have kids closer in age who are older and alas, cost us more money in schools, activities, etc. It really does irk me that kids apply to these schools and when they dont get a free ride blame the school, especially if it’s a private institution. It bothers me even more when people live beyond their means and then apply for aid because they failed to save for their kids’ education. Do I begrudge all these people in need of aid? Absolutely not. And I fully believe in socioeconomic diversity - in fact so much so that I think racial diversity is oft times over rated - but to think any entity owes someone else an education, a job, or a way of life is not what founded this country. You want socialized education where anyone can go to college for free? Russia has a great system.</p>

6

<p>Students are only entitled to an education that matches their intellectual capabilities in civilized nations. In the US it is strictly “money talks” unless you are so poor that the institution can feel magnaminous. Western Europe has a better system than either the US or Russia. Conservatives hate to look at the Western European model objectively because in terms of lifestyle and opportunity for the mass of citizens it is beating us.</p>

<p>Wall Street insiders are sending their kids to elite schools with bonus money paid to them by the government. How can they be said to have earned this money? It is simply an unjust abuse of power and connections.</p>

<p>Meanwhile hard working auto industry professionals are losing their jobs and having their benefits cut. Has the auto industry failure been more profound tha the financial services industry failure? No it has not. The financial “wizards” are simply better connected. Look at the Ivy League holdings of financial stocks and you will know why the government is propping them up at everyone else’s expense.</p>

<p>The American system has failed and is failing the mass of citizens. Short term thinking aimed at generating bonuses for the well connected has left our industrial infrastructure gutted and uncompetitive.</p>

7

<p>I looked at the financial aid forum and it really upset me. The kids there were complaining that they couldn’t get more free aid to the Ivy league schools. We will have enough problems paying the $80k for a state school for my kids and these kids are mad that my tax money isn’t giving them a free ride to an Ivy?</p>

<p>My blood pressure won’t allow me to revisit that forum :-).</p>

8

<p>Here is a link to the full article:</p>

<p>[College-bound</a> students run into financial wall - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-financialaid1-2009may01,0,2573251.story]College-bound”>College-bound students run into financial wall)</p>

<p>Excerpt:</p>

<p>'Families tend to have unrealistic expectations of financial aid, which often consists mainly of eligibility for loans and work study jobs, the experts said. Still, many households had a far rosier financial outlook last fall, when students applied to college, and many were caught flat-footed by the gaps between their aid offers and their resources.</p>

<p>Ruth Rodriguez, a municipal worker, said she and her husband, a computer company employee, have a combined annual income of about $140,000. They had hoped that their daughter, an A student at highly competitive Whitney High School in Cerritos, would receive grant or scholarship aid from the state or USC. Instead, she was told she was eligible for $5,500 in student loans.</p>

<p>“She’s so well-rounded, so bright, how can she not be offered a scholarship or grant?” the mother said, citing her daughter’s involvement in sports, community service and youth-in-government activities. “We are standard, everyday working people . . . who has that kind of money sitting in their bank account?”</p>

<p>L. Katharine Harrington, USC’s dean of admissions and financial aid, said she could not comment on an individual student’s situation. But she said the school, which expanded its financial aid budget by 8% for next school year, is doing everything it can to take into account cases of economic hardship.'</p>

9

<p>Who do these people think funds “they system” and who do they expect to pay for THEIR kid’s education?</p>

10

<p>

</p>

<p>People, like me, with a similar income (back then; it’s much lower now) but lived vastly below their means, in a high cost of living area. That’s who.</p>

11

<p>BigG, </p>

<p>Every time I read one of your posts about how much better western Europe does higher education, I am reminded of the article I am linking below. Perhaps the US could transform all of its universities into 4-yr commuter community colleges without libraries or actual campuses, but I don’t think that is what most people want. Also, I believe the participation rate for higher education is higher in the US than in any western European country and affords opportunities to a broader range of incomes, even today.</p>

<p>From the NY Times, May 2006:</p>

<p>[Higher</a> Learning In France Clings To Its Old Ways - New York Times](<a href=“http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E4D7173EF931A25756C0A9609C8B63]Higher”>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E4D7173EF931A25756C0A9609C8B63)</p>

<p>

]</p>

12

<p>I woke up and read that article in the LA Times as well; not a great way to start my day! We are reaping the results of an entitled society. The young lady is in Ca. where we have great state u’s, but she is winding up at Cal State Long Beach. Not that CSLB is not a good school, but if she got into USC she most likely could have gotten into a UC as well. Go figure. Oh, by the way anyone out there want to help me get a new luxury car; after all aren’t I entitled because I work hard!</p>

13

<p>They shook the wrong tree. The importance of understanding a school’s financial aid policies and reputation cannot be overstated. It should drive all lists, no dream schools allowed.</p>

14

<p>I agree that the mother expresses an unwarranted degree of entitlement here, but in wondering where that might come from, I can recall any number of overly-optimistic pep talks I’ve heard over the years during the financial segment of admissions info sessions at many colleges: “Money should not be a factor! If your child can get admitted, we’ll work with you to make it affordable. We’ll make it happen!”</p>

<p>Maybe she just took the finaid cheerleading at face value without ever looking at the reality below surface.</p>

15

<p>I know that college selection can be an emotional decision, and that “fit” can be an important consideration. But, like it or not, college selection is also an economic decision. One can ignore the economic realities, but that does not mean that they just disappear.</p>

16

<p>The story annoys me, too. </p>

<p>Did this family never do the numbers to get an estimate of financial aid?</p>

17

<p>^^^I agree, coureur (post 14). The schools need to stop that PR. Of course, as long as people were willing to take out loans against their over-valued homes, the system sort of seemed to work. I guess a lot of people now realize that is not a viable option for raising the cash needed to meet EFC, so the smoke is starting to clear.</p>

18

<p>Here’s what I’m talking about. From USC’s own admissions web page:</p>

<p>[USC</a> Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/]USC”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/)</p>

<p>Big, bold headline:</p>

<p>“When you have found a university that offers everything you are looking for—terrific students taught by a great faculty on a beautiful campus in an exciting location—cost should not be the primary factor in your decision to apply or to attend.”</p>

<p>I think the moral of this student’s experience is just the opposite - that cost should indeed be the primary factor in your decision to apply or attend. The mother just believed what USC was telling her.</p>

19

<p>I lived in Europe for six years and I have to say that the Europeans are not happy with their university systems either. If you dont’ score high enough, you don’t go. That’s truly unfair, especially because people mature emotionally and intellectually at different rates. (Of course if you got to go, you probably think the system is just fine.)</p>

<p>I prefer our country where anyone can get a higher education, even if it’s through working and attending community college or night school. It is the way we raise our education level as a nation, and achieve egalitarianism. </p>

<p>About the article: College acceptance and merit scholarships are competitive, not an entitlement. Your kid is awesome and competing against kids who are equally or more awesome. Financial aid does not = free education, it may = a lot of loans. You decide if it’s worth it.</p>

20

<p>I don’t understand why BigG keeps on talking about Wall Streeters taking tax payer’s money to get a free ride to college when apparently she couldn’t afford to pay for her daughter to go to an Ivy. I don’t think that many wealthy WS people have their kids in top tier schools (why bother why you have a trust fund). In my IT group (granted we work for a finance company, but not with front office pay), there are people here with kids in Harvard, Dartmouth, Cornell, Williams, Amherst… Most of those programmers are first generation immigrants. I know how much they make. They pay for thier kids tuition by saving over years. I have a Russian programmer with 3 kids, Harvard, and 2 in Darmouth - full pay.</p>

<p>People are not entitled to go to ANY school they want just because they are smart. As a matter of fact, we are not entitled to a college education, a house, 2 cars and 2 kids. There is no system to guarantee people that.</p>

<p>A very hard working kid (not even smart) could get a merit scholarship to schools, even if the parents are incompetant.</p>