<p>The pile that says that double the number of Iraqis approve of killing Americans than they did three years ago, and the State Department pile that says an overwhelming majority of Iraqis want the U.S. out IMMEDIATELY, and the pile of Democrats that just don’t get it.</p>
<p>Fundingfather, you’ve made a valid point. I am always looking for the other shoe that’s about to drop. I’m always trying to figure out how the law of unintended consequences is going to rise up and bite me in the butt. I guess it’s a byproduct of having been a dad for 20 years, and a lawyer for over 30. I’ve seen so many people whistle past the graveyard - and straight into bankruptcy. I’ve seen the best of intentions metastasize into hideously harmful policies which people just can’t bring themselves to admit are worse than the problem they were attacking - on every level of human endeavor, from little league to the UN.</p>
<p>So, yeah, you’re right. I have to admit that my enjoyment of science fiction started to wane about the time I started to wonder “How do they handle their sewage?” every time I was introduced to an alternative planet/universe/space colony. So I admit it: I see a pony in the yard, and my first thought probably is “Who’s gonna clean up the horse manure?”</p>
<p>"“Unlike almost anywhere else in Baghdad, you could dine at the cafeteria in the Republican Palace for six months and never eat hummus, flatbreadm or a lamb kebab. The fare was always American, with Southern flavor. A buffet featuring grits, cornbread, and a bottomless barrel of pork:sausage for breakfast, hot dogs for lunch, pork chops for dinner. There were bacon cheeseburgers, grilled cheese and bacon sandwiches, and bacon omelets. Hundreds of Iraqi secretaries and translators who worked for the occupation authority (CPA) had to eat in the dining hall. Most of them were Muslims, and many were offended by the presence of pork. But the American contractors running the kitchen kept serving it. The cafeteria was all about meeting American needs for high calorie, high-fat comfort food.”</p>
<p>If, after 3 years, the U.S. can’t even run a cafeteria without offending, what makes one think that they’ll ever be able to run a country? And one wonders why they don’t embrace us?</p>
<p>From the WP review of Rajiv Chandrasekharan’s book:</p>
<p>"Take, for example, the story of Frederick M. Burkle Jr., a Navy reserve officer and physician with two Bronze Stars whom a colleague describes as “the single most talented and experienced post-conflict health specialist working for the United States government.” Burkle was ousted a week after Baghdad’s liberation because, he was told by his superiors, the White House preferred to have a Bush “loyalist” in charge of health matters in Iraq. Burkle was replaced (fully two months later) by James K. Haveman Jr., a social worker whose experience as the community-health director for Michigan’s former Republican governor, John Engler, had followed a stint running “a large Christian adoption agency in Michigan that urged pregnant women not to have abortions.” Haveman had also traveled widely “in his capacity as a director of International Aid, a faith-based relief organization that provided health care while promoting Christianity in the developing world.” (That pro-life stance was not uncommon in the CPA: Two staffers report being asked during their job interviews if they supported the Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade ruling.) Chandrasekaran’s rendition of Haveman’s performance in Iraq makes for unnerving reading: the launch of an antismoking campaign while hospitals lacked pain killers; the emphasis on preventive medicine in a country ravaged by a bloody insurgency; an attempt to refashion Iraq’s health care system with a U.S.-inspired model based on private providers, co-payments and primary care while newborns routinely died for lack of incubators. </p>
<p>Or take the case of Capt. John Smathers, a reservist and personal-injury lawyer charged with bringing some order to the chaotic traffic jams that ensued after U.S. authorities eliminated all import duties and the country was flooded by imported used cars. The solution? Download Maryland’s motor-vehicle code from the Internet, translate it into Arabic and, after much haggling and revision, have Bremer sign it into law. CPA Order 86 included provisions such as, “Pedestrians walking during darkness or cloudy weather shall wear light or reflective clothing.” </p>
<p>Micromanaging and emulating U.S. institutions was also the instinct of Jay Hallen, the clueless 24-year-old in charge of reopening the Baghdad stock market. His approach was to create one patterned after the New York Stock Exchange. (No, it didn’t work.) Nor was Hallen the only inexperienced twentysomething CPA staffer given responsibilities for which he was utterly unprepared. Six of the “ten young gofers” that the CPA had requested from the Pentagon to handle minor administrative tasks found themselves managing Iraq’s $13-billion budget. Where did the Pentagon recruit them? From the Heritage Foundation; they had sent their resumes there, looking for work in that conservative think tank."</p>
<p>They want to kill us, and not just the soldiers. Should this come as any surprise? The U.S. doesn’t have the moral standing to even ask about “unintended consequences”. And the Democrats should be ashamed.</p>
<p>The democratically elected people of Iraq may want USA out, but they can’t ask Bush to leave; They never were in a position to invite Bush in; Saddam invited Bush into the country, and he is now no position of make a demand other than to keep Bush in country.</p>
<p>^^^I have to admit that I don’t understand a single part of post #85.
…???</p>
<p>I’m sure there’s a point there, I just have absolutely no idea what it is.</p>
<p>Re # 85 I think it is more dog chasing tail. Faulty arguments used to bolster faulty arguments, that never lead anywhere.</p>
<p>^ That is a problem, isn’t it. How to break the cycle is a the crux of the matter for Bush. </p>
<p>Bush may not even care anymore since he has already stated quite clearly that this will be a difficult “war” and that he will not be the President to end it. If the Iraqi’s President/Legislature asked Bush to leave tomorrow, timeline, or near future, Could Bush do it? </p>
<p>Bush has equated the War on Terrorism with the War in Iraq. Does withdrawal from Iraq mean that Bush has won the Terrorism War? </p>
<p>Dog chasing his tail is a good analogy. We could start at the head and work towards the tail: Do we work from the head, along the body to the tail, or do we work from the nose to the tippy tip of the tail? For some of us, it matters whether we are chasing the tail by turning clockwise, and some of us chose chasing counterclockwise.</p>
<p>Well, that clarified things 
(in upside down land).</p>
<p>There is no such thing as a “War on Terror”; it makes no more sense than a “War on Poverty” or a “War on Illiteracy”, or a “War on Islam”. It’s just fuzzy language, used as an excuse for any and every action that suits Mr. Sleaze and Mr. Cheap’s fancy at any particular time. “War” IS “terror” (in case you haven’t noticed.) The War in Iraq was over three years ago. Now we have something called an “Occupation”, where a rapidly growing majority of inhabitants approve of killing the occupiers. </p>
<p>If that is the War on Terror, it is time to admit the U.S. lost and go home.</p>
<p>so then mini you feel that terrorism poses no threat? and that America should handle the issue as a law enforcment thing, not militarly. I am curious what steps would you have taken after 911 or maybe even earlier like say in 1979</p>
<p>^ Please start a thread. Thread is about the present and future. Not about the past. </p>
<p>Addendum: Pondering on own idiotic thinking of #85.
Maybe the stinky end is leading the head. or
Head following the tail. or
Foley trying to find a hole.
(oops, fingers slipped)</p>
<p>"so then mini you feel that terrorism poses no threat? "</p>
<p>Who said any such thing? Don’t be ridiculous, or put words in my mouth. It isn’t appreciated, and isn’t conducive to a free exchange of views. </p>
<p>I don’t believe you are curious about anything.</p>
<p>I STILL don’t understand what WIN means…I am serious, what is the end goal, or does it keep moving</p>
<p>How does a war on terrorism end? What will the circumstances in Iraq have to be before it is VICTORY? What about Afghanistan?</p>
<p>And what about all the other countries we know either support terrorism or are home to active terrorist groups - countries such as Pakistan, Somalia, Iran, Philippines – are we going to attack them too?</p>
<p>Yes! And what about North Korea? Venezuela’s not been particularly pleasant lately, Putin is leaning away from democracy these days in Russia, and China’s an ever-present Communist threat. Shall we attack them all?</p>
<p>(Don’t give 'em any ideas…;))</p>
<p>IF our administration wanted us to leave Iraq , they would have sent in compitent people to help with the rebuilding…but they chose “loyalists” who had little experience, education, or undertanding…as they sent in poorly equipped people to lead the rebuilding, and got rid of many that had the capabilities, it just shows no real interest in doing it right</p>