<p>Italys murder rate is much less than in the USA.
The rape rate however is double.</p>
<p>The amount of misinformation out there is appalling, on BOTH sides. The only way to get a clear picture of the facts is to read the actual transcripts from the trial. However, oddly enough some of the english translations have been taken down. If you had the time to sort through these things, it would definitely change the way you look at the case no matter what side you are on.</p>
<p>Meredith actually knew Guede, not real well, but they had met a few times. He was very friendly with the boys who rented the apartment downstairs and he had been at a party that Meredith also attended not long before the murder. So if she let him in, she was not opening the door to a total stranger.</p>
<p>One of the biggest misconceptions is that the bizarre “satanic cult” theory originated because of Knox’s sexual activities and behavior. This is untrue. That theory was floated after an administrator from Rafaelle’s University testified that he had been “monitored” closely his first year. Apparently a group of boys in the dorm reported Rafaelle because they were so disturbed by the graphic pornography he was watching that depicted bestiality. Apparently it was VERY bad stuff. The theory never held water in the end, but that whole fiasco which the American press made a big deal of, was really tied to an Italian citizen.</p>
<p><a href=“http://groundreport.com/the-murder-of-meredith-kercher/”>http://groundreport.com/the-murder-of-meredith-kercher/</a></p>
<p>Here is the only version that is actually supported by the evidence, along with some details about Rudy Guede. The thing she did that night that led to her murder was walk into her apartment alone. If that were really faulty behavior, we would all be dead by now.</p>
<p>And before anyone chimes in from their high moral ground, I realize the story above was written by a Seattle-area person and contains some imaginings. It really was just to point out that there is no way Meredith Kercher would have voluntarily been on a date with this guy.</p>
<p>So if you were Amanda Knox and her family - would you be looking for a place to go live? Would you stay and pray that the US govt won’t extradite you or make a run for it? </p>
<p>I say that I feel for her family, even as I hurt for the Kercher who lost their daughter, because this is something that the Knox family is having to consider and actively research. I have no doubt that they (Knox’s parents) believe she is innocent to the marrow of their bones, and they are fighting tooth and nail for their daughter as the Sollecito’s are for their son. To ask them “what about the victim?”" is ludicrous to me, because they are focused on their own, whom they beiieve are wrongly being accused and they will lose to jail time and charges that they do not believe one instant. So of course, they are not as concerned about the victim with such a crisis at home. They have been incredibly gracious about what they have said and not said about the victim, (nicer than I’ve been here, and I don’t think I’ve been all that bad–her own roomates and friends said worse, as they had to do so, to tell the truth in the case). </p>
<p>I don’t believe for one instant that even IF Kersher let Guede into the apartment, even if she had consensual activiites with him, even if they were looped out on drugs, even if she loved cutting games,even if ANYTHING, that he should get a quarter for such IFs. Not anything. Nor does the Italian court, so it’s all irrelevant how Guede was let into the apartment. Who cares? His story was that she did let him into the apartment. So? Doesn’t matter. Says, they played around sexually . So? Who cares? Whether any of that is true or not, it makes no difference. Guede has been caught in several lies in his statements, but even if those things about Kercher I brought up happen to be true, and we’ll never know for sure unless some video footage pops up that shows it, it doesn’t matter one bit. </p>
<p>What’s interesting about Guede’s statements, however, is that they don’t include Knox or Sollecito in a way that one would expect if the three of them acted in collusion with each other. Makes no sense at all. He doesn’t even seem to know who Sollecito is, and can’t place Knox in the apartment even other than by recoginizing her voice? Though he may have changed his story about that, none of his testimony brings them to the scene. Usually in cases like this, nearly always, such a person would be pointing fingers at the two of them, and he could have gotten some more time off had he been able to give testimony to implicate the two of them more. Every single thing that can be proven that Guede has said, he has said after the facts were all out and available to anyone, and he’s said things that were disproved too. Right now and even before, the prosecutor would love to get info from Guede that they could use against K and S; they already have Guede, and could use all they can get on the other two. Guede has refused to confirm the 3 person attack theory and the reconstruction. He denies it all. Says he heard the screaming, saw blood when he came out of the bathroom and hightailed it out of there without seeing either of them. For all the changes in his stories, he can’t place them in that room killing Kercher. Just denies he did it. </p>
<p>Look, I am no fan of Knox or Solecitto, but if Amanda were MY child, yes, I would be looking for alternate living arrangements in a country that does not have an extradition treaty with Italy. This verdict will be appealed once again, and so she has another shot. That or attempt to cut a VERY good deal with the prosecutor. Guede actually looks the smartest right now. He got an automatic 1/3 reduction for opting for the fast track trial and because of his age, he got a further reduction. Coupled with the “work release” option he is out next year. I think that is getting off mighty easy.</p>
<p>Harvestmoon, it is likely that some deal will be attempted with the prosecutor. Sadly, if something does not work out that way, if that were my child, and I fully believe her to be innocent of this as I believe the Knox parents do, I would be looking for other arrangements too. The 20-30 year sentence would not be bearable to me. I agree that Guede got off easy, especially given the evidence. I think he’s allowed out this year for work release, and the way it works in ITaly, they’ll be helping him back on his feet. I can’t believe the Kerchers are not outraged about that. How long did he serve altogether? Unbelievable. We got someone put away for pure theft for 20 years minimum–no chance of parole til then, and he did not harm or threaten a soul. </p>
<p>But if you had some inkling that she might have had some involvement in the crime, what would you do?</p>
<p>“But if you had some inkling that she might have had some involvement in the crime, what would you do?”</p>
<p>No matter what, if I thought there was a chance she’d be extradited, she’d be outta here. Had she “some involvement” in the crime, well, she’s already served four years in prison. While the proven murderer is only serving six years. </p>
<p>But if you had some inkling that she might have had some involvement in the crime, what would you do? </p>
<p>If it was my kid there wouldn’t be any inklings. I would know exactly what happened.</p>
<p>It’s human nature to want to qualify and moralize behavior, risky or otherwise. This gives us license to tell ourselves that we are safe and that our children won’t be victims as long as we play by the “rules.” But, you know what? Crime is capricious and random and we can’t spend our lives worrying about what if. </p>
<p>If I were Meredith’s mother, I would’ve hired an Italian private detective to get to the bottom of this mess, if that’s at all feasible at this juncture. If I were Knox’s parent, I’d be damn sure I had a back up plan in the event Italy presses to extradite.</p>
<p>If I were Guede’s parent, I would have told him to take the fast track deal. I would not have said the same to Knox given the evidence against her, the case against her. Both Guede and Knox lied terribly and were caught doing so, repeatedly, both deny killing Kercher, but I am pragmatic enough to know with the evidence there, that there was little chance that Guede was going to get off even some freak thing had happened, like the murder occurred while he was on the toilet after having consensual sex of sorts with Kercher. Whether I believed him or not, I would not expect a jury, a system, anyone to do so. Unfortunate, a heartbreak, but true. I’ve had to take that line on far less serious issues.</p>
<p>With Knox, a lot of the evidence was her behavior and her lies. I think it’s very possible she was waded through the murder scene and chose not to report it, could have been blitzed out of her mind, could just be that foolish. So it would depend upon the sort of “inkling”. The evidence to me, was not overwhelming, and Sollecito’s family apparently felt the same way, as he did not leave Italy after the second trial that found him not guitly. If they thought he was so involved and there was a such a risk that he’d be serving 20-30 years for this, I don’t think he would have stayed in the country.</p>
<p>As a disinterested party, though I personally do not agree with the verdict given the evidence I seen on the case, with all of the arguments that those who support that verdict have, I would support it. If I were a US judge, I’d likely insist Knox being extradited and have to go by the findings of the Italian justice system. However, if she were my child, I probably would be looking at other options at this point. Whatever her involvement, I think there is enough doubt there that she did not have anything directly to do with the killing, That is why one needs uninvolved parties making these decisions. If I were the Kerchers, I would not have made the proclamations about Knox that they have, and would feel that the roles with the two girls could have been reversed, unless there is some striking evidence that is not in the court documents. I have a dear friend who lost her DD under terrible circumstances, and she was able to stay gracious about those who were involved in her death. She , to me, exemplifies how I would like to be under such fire, not the Kerchers.</p>
<p>Not only would I be looking for places for my daughter to go to avoid extradition, I’d be moving money, and searching for ways to make money for me and my husband and whoever else wanted to go to leave the US and never come back. Even if I had some niggling doubt in the back of my mind, I wouldn’t want to see a child of mine going to a jail in Italy, or anywhere for that matter. </p>
<p>i would not want my daughter returning to jail. 4 years for lying/making-up her activities of that night is enough punishment. yep, I’d be with eyemamom</p>
<p>Am wondering who her U.S. lawyers are. They seem to keep a very low profile for a case getting so much publicity. My recommendation would be that she go for one of the “big guns”. At this stage in the game she should not be fooling around with any small town lawyers. If she is going to stay, she needs to find someone with experience in extradition. Sure there are not that many, but she needs to find one. </p>
<p>It also occurs to me that perhaps if she is going to make a move, she should do so quickly. Our government seems to be silent on the whole thing right now, and perhaps they are giving her a window of opportunity. This girl needs some direction from someone who knows what they are doing. Otherwise she is going to blunder through this phase of the case as well. </p>
<p>Oh please, this guy killed her without any help from anybody. He is a twisted, depraved psychopath who broke into the apt and surprised Meredith. She didn’t ask for this and had no complicity in her own demise. All this sex stuff was made up, none of it true. Just a bunch of BS</p>
<p>I found the link in Magnetron’s post very credible. I urge everyone to read it. Here are two quotes which got my attention:</p>
<p>“In the month and a half that Meredith Kercher was in Italy, Guede had robbed four people, two of which through a second story window, once using a rock. He had eaten food, set a fire, killed a cat and was caught red-handed with stolen goods from two of those robberies.”</p>
<p>“That is really the sick and twisted part, that the Perugians are so very willing to put the real murderer back on the streets in order to save face for persecuting innocent people. That they are wholly unconcerned about releasing a man with obvious psychological issues back into the public realm, while they will pull out all stops to drag Amanda and Raffaele continually into court. I think the Perugian authorities are every bit as depraved as Rudy Guede.”</p>
<p>Goldenpooch, I found that link very interesting as well. It is one of the only plausible stories I have yet heard.</p>
<p>Whoa, there. I agree that Guede is one unsavory person. But he was not convicted of ANYTHING until this case, unlike Sollecito and maybe even Knox. The same system that is saying there is enough evidence to convict K and S on murder charges, did not find enough evidence to convict Guede of those things in which he was implicated. Believe me, I have my own personal opinions on all of this, but they are based on fact, not on conjectures and stories, of which there are quite a few. On actual testimonies and then on facts that do not match, on record, not on stories without backing. </p>
<p>Guede was there at the house that night, had sex of sorts with Kercher, was in contact with her blood. To me, that is enough there for him to be convicted of killing her. The evidence is not so clear with Knox, as that is her home too, and she has every right and reason to be there, and her DNA should be found there. There is a leap between her having been there, stepped in the blood, cleaned up the blood, lied about being there, and having killed her. </p>
<p>An Italian attorney that I know told me that it’s a huge breach to lie to the court (it is here too) and that when one does that to the point where so little you say pans out, the court can and often will make up its own mind as to what happened. Here in the US, though, yes, it happens as well, we do tend to give liars a pass. Casey Anthony being a case in point. Not a person on the jury believe a word she said, but acknowledged that the evidence did not prove she killed her child. They could have just as easily come to the conclusion that she had to have done so , since there are no other reasonable explanations to what happened. </p>
<p>Don’t know how this all plays out in Italy and how it will play out. My personal suspicion is that Knox was more involved than she is saying, and may well have walked into to Kercher’s room and seen K and not reported it for some depraved reason or other. Maybe she was glad to see her dead. Maybe she stole her money (that is what is being said, by the way), Maybe she cleaned up some of the mess. Maybe she was fooling around in there with Kercher earlier, and then found her dead and realized she had a problem. Maybe she did kill her. All maybes. Too many maybes for me. But the court finds that all of the lies she and Sollecito have told about the evening in question and about so many thihgs that they were asked, means that the only reasonable explanation is that they were in on the murder. </p>
<p>It is a troubling sticking point, by the way, to some of those in law in Italy, that the Guede, Knox, Sollecito collusion theory just doesn’t seem to fit in their testimonies about each other. Makes no sense. But it’s a fuzzy logic sort of thing. </p>
<p>cpt, you keep repeating that Knox is some kind of pathological liar who has repeatedly lied about this case. Except for one day during an intense 5-day interrogation, I don’t think your characterization of her is accurate. Also, as far as I can tell she never lied in court. Sure, it is hard to understand why she said what she did, but it is a documented fact that people will admit to crazy things under severe stress. As a 19 or 20-year-old girl, she obviously freaked out. I get it.</p>
<p>You don’t have to believe Magnetron’s link but common sense (taking into account the physical evidence) would suggest that Knox is innocent.</p>
<p>Nope, she lied from the very start, Goldenpooch. She initially told the police that she and S were at some party at some place for most of the night. Total lie. I’m not even counting the infamous lie implicating someone innocent that she claims was done under intense interrogation, something that the Italian police deny,and her accusations about that have been disproved too. She claims 43 hours, by the way, not 5 days. Where you get the idea of the 5 days, I don’t know. But she made up the story and told it to the police in about 2 1/2 hours, when her second statement of her activities that night did not hold up either. All of the roommates, friends, anyone around Kersher was asked to provide statements about where they were, what they were doing. S and K’s were the two that did not hold up when the police went through their routine verifications. </p>
<p>A lot of what she has said happened simply did not. A lot of what she and her family are saying is simply not true. These are facts. That’s why there are so many problems with this case. Neither she nor S can be believed about anything any more, without verification. </p>
<p>Those on the scene, who knew her best, her friends and roommates and those who hung around her are hard put to defend her, and in fact, do not. There is a reason for this. </p>
<p>^^^^^
The infamous lie about Patrick Lumumba was made after a few hours of questioning. She was at class ALL day and then accompanied Raffaele to the police station later that evening because the police had called him back. It was then that he recanted his story that she was with him all evening the night of her murder. She was in the waiting room doing her homework and they then called her in. She made the statement 2 1/2 hours after that. </p>