<p>I thought the Times article was a bit over the top. Typical elitest mentality with (I’m paraphrasing here)…“she had such a hard life in that her husband travelled alot and she was lonely”. Give me a break. I feel sorry for her because she was mentally ill, but people do have worse problems than a husband who’s on the road. She needed help, but the airport security guys aren’t expected to be social workers. They were doing their job.</p>
<p>I agree with 1of42 and with dke. The family feels guilty for not having accompanied her, and it’s human nature to lash out at someone else and blame them, in order to make yourself feel blameless.</p>
<p>BTW, it’s my understanding that she was drinking in a bar in the airport between the flights, and she got to the gate later than required. I too have been prevented from getting on a flight because I got there too late – in my case due to traffic, not to hanging out in a bar – and it’s very very annoying and frustrating. Nevertheless, especially in this day and age, rules are rules, and airport personnel are required to follow them very strictly. </p>
<p>She was creating a disturbance. From the video I’ve seen, the police didn’t do anything nasty or over the top. She was out of control and they did what they should have.</p>
<p>My suspicion is that she tried to manipulate the cuffs and the chain from around her body but she was under the influence. Had she been monitored every minute, this would have been avoided, but I doubt that’s standard protocol.</p>
<p>BTW, seems to me that the rehab place she was headed to in Tuscon – Cottonwood – might consider making people available at the airport in Phoenix specifically to excort people from one flight to another. I have a friend who’s substance-abusing son missed his connection as well. (With no untoward consequences like this situation, thank goodness).</p>
<p>well, Betsy Gotbaum will now bring in the BIG GUNS and set everyone in Phoenix straight on how things “should” be done.</p>
<p>If the police have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, they won’t mind the careful scrutiny. Right?</p>
<p>Just like the rest of us under this administration. Right?</p>
<p>I know I’m harping on one part of this, but after reading the transcripts of the husband’s calls to the airport describiing his wife - telling them they are playing with fire and about how suicidal she is, I find it more and more unbelievable that no one accompanied this woman. The fact that he wanted to be with the kids is one thing, but she had parents, he had parents. My 85 year old mother who has only flown a couple of times in her life would have never let me on that plane alone. I don’t care whether she insisted on going alone or didn’t want to bother people, there is no scenario in which she should have been on that trip alone. There are intervenors whose job it is to do these things so hire someone. I just can’t get over that - not only was her life endangered, but, had this disturbance occurred on the plane, others would have been in danger. I feel so badly for the position she was in - she obviously felt very desperate - she talked some guy into giving her his ticket so she could get on her scheduled flight but security wouldn’t allow that of course. It does appear that she was drinking - her husband suggested that in his calls, but wouldn’t that be expected? I would assume that is why she wanted to fly alone - so she could have a few last drinks before rehab - that’s why they call it an addiction.</p>
<p>I wholeheartedly agree that she should not have flown alone, that the family absolutely should not have allowed that.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I expect that badly mistaken decisions that lead one into police custody should not also lead to death while in that custody.</p>
<p>It is also my understanding and expectation that police are trained in recognizing and appropriately handling those with emotional disorders and/or substance abuse issues, so that such people do not die while in police custody.</p>
<p>This is why I believe that the actions of the police must be closely scrutinized–and criticized in a harsh and highly public way, should those actions turn out to have been wrongful, to have been significant contributors to Mrs. Gotbaum’s death.</p>
<p>ADad - I agree. When someone dies in police custody, something went wrong. Whether it meets the legal standard for assigning culpability is another thing, but it should at least lead to a change in procedure. I think they decided that she was an unruly drunk and that was that. I’m sure they don’t have much compassion for those who disrupt their day by getting sloshed. They have to also know that alcohol impairs judgment, so monitoring is important.</p>
<p>I agree with ADad…both aspects are an issue here…if she was suicidal and needing this rehab, it seems she should have been accompanied. As well, it seems like police would be trained to recognize at some basic level if a person is intoxicated or emotionally disturbed in some fashion and handle it accordingly and at least keep a watchful eye at all times. The idea of dying in police custody is hard to fathom.</p>
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<p>Is there something about the state government of Arizona that we don’t know about?</p>
<p>WashDad: Not that I know of, and I admit that I took a harsher tone in that particular post than I typically take or like to take. </p>
<p>I do believe, however, imo, that police (and prosecutorial) actions in any jurisdiction must be closely and publicly monitored. There is too much room for, and too much experience with, police and prosecutorial misconduct to hand them a free pass, particularly, and most painfully, when someone in the custody of the police dies.</p>
<p>I wonder why they felt she needed to be handcuffed when she was in the cell?</p>
<p>^^That’s a great question because a cell is already confinement. Not sure the protocal. Sometimes when someone is found drunk, they’re taken to a “drunk tank”. Perhaps there wasn’t yet a full assessment of what they had on their hands but I would imagine they are trained to look for signs of inebriation, emotionally out of control, etc. They could not know she was suicidal in that short amount of time, to be fair. But I have no clue their procedures but it seems like handcuffs AND in a cell and nobody watching…something just doesn’t seem right in how it was handled. This is separate from that she should not have been traveling alone given her current state of mind.</p>
<p>Sometimes the truth is cruel. Sorry but that’s real life. Many many children have had their lives ruined by such “parents”. Those are the ones I feel sorry for.</p>
<p>Barrons, I DO think it is cruel to insinuate that her children are better off without this mother and that she basically won’t be missed because she was not “mother of the year” and so her life wasn’t worth it. (referring to earlier posts of yours on this thread) The fact is, this woman loved her children, I am sure, but she had a disease. Her disease affected her ability to be what she wanted to be and she was seeking rehab to get better. Clearly her life was worthy but she needed help. And clearly her children WILL be worse off to have lost their mother. You have no evidence that her children’s lives were being “ruined” by her. She likely could not function as one would hope and thus sought help to get better. To even use “parents” in a quote is shameful. I imagine she was a loving mother but was not able to function optimally due to her alcoholism and her emotional issues that made her suicidal. The fact that she recognized she had a problem and was seeking help was a big step. Hopefully with rehab, she could have been on a more even keel and been the more optimum mom she had wanted to be. </p>
<p>I truly DO feel sorry for her kids at the loss of their mom who they can’t get back, ill or healthy. I sure bet they wish they had her in their lives. It’s a sad story to many people considering all the circumstances, but we already know you won’t shed a tear for these motherless children because you feel their mom was not worthy in the first place. :(</p>
<p>I also pray for your sake that you never have a family member whom you care about who has either the disease of alchoholism, depression, or other mental health issues.</p>
<p>My mother had depression for most of her life so I actually know what it’s like growing up in such a family. We made our peace later in life but it was no picnic.</p>
<p>I agree with soozievt</p>
<p>I’m not perfect–are YOU? It is sad that these kids lost their Mom.</p>
<p>Soozievt-
So well said. Tragic all around.</p>
<p>Yes, I’m sure she was a great mother–like you have any evidence of that. Somebody who needs to get drunk in the airport on the way to rehab is pretty far gone. Add in that she’s an angry drunk and it’s not a pretty picture. But you are right, I don’t know that–it’s just is a good possibility. And more likely than anything else, which is what I said.</p>
<p>Barrons, - at least you had your mother around to make peace with, but by your standards, you would have been better off had she died when you were in knickers.</p>
<p>Barrons, Trust me, your mom loved you very very much as I’m sure Carol loved her kids(and even Brittany does!) Depression/alcoholism/mental illness is cruel to all involved.</p>