Thanks for your thoughts. I don’t want to post her stats here as I don’t think that would be very graceful and I would not want one to have feelings over it. Let me share that of the schools you shared that were of interest…
Olin – looked into it, they dropped their grant from 30k to 10k for next year.
RPI and Clarkson – despite being affordable, not compatible.
McGill – we visited and were very disappointed on several levels – school / classrooms are run down, campus was so-so, student guides were rude and arrogant, Montreal was loud and leaning towards dirty (but great food), admissions was rigid and not helpful (bad precedent). May consider again however. Wish U Toronto was not so expensive.
The classes (like Calc 1) at her college are like taking 2 Calc classes at some other schools that are less difficult to get into which surprised us and she does not want to sacrifice on vigor.
My guess is that you’ve not visited Politecnico Milan if you think McGill is rigid and run down.
Basically the norm is to fail but there are two sessions. Most students pass some classes in the first session, some classes in the second session, then take the rest over to the next semester. Depending on the classes they failed they may be allowed to take the next level in the other classes, or not.
Where is your daughter at this point (a Canadian college?)
Note:”college” in Canada means either grades 12-14 or CC; in the UK, it covers classes for students 16-21. So the student could be doing a PG year or attending a specific type of secondary school or be at a CC or be attending a US college/university.
For what its worth, I have a first year at RPI and We are double RPI alumni. RPI isn’t on tier w Clarkson, its MUCH higher. For PHd many people go to Caltech, MIT, etc…
There are plenty of rigorous classes at American U’s that don’t require moving to Italy and facing uncertain employment prospects down the road– as I understand your posts, she will not have EU citizenship, so will have to jump through the “get a signed offer from a company in Italy, then get the work permit” hoops, correct?
With no ties to Italy, what is she offering an Italian employer??
Why not look at American U’s with robust study abroad options in Italy for a semester or a summer? if she loves it, she can figure out a long term plan after she has a Bachelor’s degree. If she decides “This was fun but I’m ready to go home” then it’s a low risk trial, right?
And can you clarify- she’s currently at an American U but not finding it rigorous enough in Engineering? Trust me- sophomore year will solve that problem if it’s an ABET program!!!
Yes, she is in college in the US, through one semester (and with a high GPA from that one semester). She loves her school (academics, student/staff body, like-minded friends, the community in the town) but realizes that the money is short and a US 3-2 program is expensive at the better schools (450-600k), the requirements to get a job are “discerning”, and other things that we are all well aware of – pay not commiserate with the inflated cost of living, enormous amounts of national debt that is getting printed away or converted into crypto and converted into inflation, numerous in-power politicians that serve their own financial interests. She did apply to one school to transfer (since my employment is ending) and had intended on applying to Olin but we learned of their merit decrease. We are (maybe were now) hoping she would have 2 years at her college (get through the 100 and most 200 level classes) than 3 years at a reputable and well-organized Uni in Europe.
BTW, I think schools like Clarkson and Union do a good job and approach affordability (for the now middle class US citizen like us). A few elite lib arts school like Swathmore and Smith have ABET accredited Engineering programs but almost no merit (CDS data for last year stated Smith 41 students, Swathmore 2 students received merit aid) and each of these schools have endowments greater that 2.5 billion).
I appreciate your, and others, sharing that the ABET accreditation is a decisive factor in job qualification. And, I am glad a large variety of somewhat affordable schools are ABET accredited as it creates opportunity for many. Thank you for sharing this.
Has she met with a financial aid officer at her current school to let them know that your employment is ending and to see what the financial aid package might look like for her junior/senior year? Why transfer if her current college can work with you on an affordable aid package?
And I’m confused- is she in an actual engineering program now, or doing the non-engineering part of an official transfer program, and if so, what are the options for the transfer years? And why not start off in engineering from the git-go???
What are your instate public options and are any of them affordable?
Hi MYOS1634, nice to hear from you again – always appreciate your thinking.
Politecnico di Milano is undergoing renovation, McGill has structural deficits that are likely impacting it’s ability to keep up facilities – but again we are reconsidering McGill and likely she will apply there for transfer if not grad school.
The fail-and-retake is a likely scenario given the overarching lecture-to-single-hard-exam approach but the kid keeps exceeding expectations too so I am hopeful.
She is at a small, highly selective lib arts college in the US (admittance rate < 15%) with a 3-2 program into prestigious, but expensive, schools (Cal Tech, Columbia, and yes RPI too @Archchick). She finds the school rigorous and knows second semester and sophomore year will be challenging – but is the kind of person who wants the challenge.
I don’t think ABET has to be decisive but I do think it matters for employment. But you noted a Masters and PhD.
When you are budget driven, unless you didn’t know she wanted engineering, going on a 3-2 made zero sense. It’s a year of more tuition and lost income. Is she at a 3-2 school?
Please explain what a better school is? To me, a better school is the one you can afford, get your degree and get a job or to your next level. A US News rank doesn’t make one better. It does sell magazines. Please don’t conflate rank with rigor - that’s another mistake. There are many schools that are rigorous - not just elite LACs - and a math and physics curriculum is going to naturally be rigorous when it’s for those majors. A high PhD feeder rank like New Mexico Tisch, RPI or Clarkson, don’t make them better. For, ability to complete, and not straining or wiping out the families financially make them better. In life, W Michigan grads have the same job as Michigan. My son interned with an Olin in Tennessee. I remember him saying she was transferring. Per her LinkedIn she didn’t and went from automotive power trains and is now working for a civil engineering firm in Mass - but her education is Mechanical.
Here’s your other issue - as a transfer, many schools have far less merit. They use merit to attract first years.
Wow - I don’t know what to say? You think that’s better in Europe, where they make a portion but things cost more. We don’t know the future, but engineers will likely be among the higher level of career earners. And I think your mindset is off - for careers, you’d like be better served by a Michigan State or a West Virginia U than a Swat or a Smith - for engineering. Yes, they have ABET accredited programs and yes, they can get jobs and frankly, their kids might be more grad school intended like other LACs - but you have less chance to specialize, less clubs, etc. Swat had 14 grads in 2024. 5 ended up in engineering, 4 in government, 2 in technology and 2 in consulting. Engineering/Manufacturing average salary was $80K, the median $77K. You know who that sounds like - lots of other solid schools…because companies pay by the job and location, not the school. Minnesota - $79K average. UCONN $79.6K with a median $80K. And they’re not apples to apples - they have more fields including the lower paying ones like bio engineering that a Swat doesn’t have the breadth academically to have. Smith, again, is engineering science - not a discipline.
I’m sort of astonished here.
You clearly have a budget here. There are not better schools - there are the schools you can afford.
Someone above said Clarkson is not in the same tier as RPI. From a ranking, that would be correct although both place at top schools and not top schools for grad school - as do many others.
But where you need to be now, is a school you can afford and get an engineering degree. I would say ABET accredited but others may not. If she has a specialty, I’d want to get into a school with a specialty.
You are focused on a US News overall rank.
If she’s going to be in the job world, that’s likely not a help. If she wants to get a PhD,
Here’s some Harvard Engineering faculty for you - and they make it really hard to see education (they don’t show - you hope they have a CV).
The first engineering name to pop - Demba Ba - undergrad U Maryland, PhD at MIT
OK - Harvard isn’t good - they don’t seem to show faculty education.
MIT - undergrad of faculty in MechE - UMN, Stevens Institute, Ohio State, Iowa State, RPI
There’s a ton of foreign schools - Indian, Australian, Israeli, Japanese, was even one in Rome - but getting to the letter F, that’s the US undergrads of MIT MechE faculty.
I really think your entire perspective is off - because you have a budget - but then you’re thumbing your nose down at schools - unless you perceive them as top tier. I’m not sure anyone would perceive Smith or Swat as top tier - amongst professional engineers. Perhaps I’m wrong but….
Start with budget and go from there.
That you have one semester of college - means, you’re basically a HS student with a GPA, rigor, test score - applying again - with less likelihood of good $$.
A 3-2 makes zero sense.
I don’t know what to say - I guess my mindset is entirely different in this case - but I think you are making mistake after mistake. But I also don’t think you could plan that far out (Masters, PhD). It’s not feasible. Even getting through an engineering curriculum is bonkers and those who move on, when you read their bios, they did a lot before they could even touch a PhD.
Good luck - but I’d list a budget, hs stats (chance me) and start there. You don’t seem to want to show that and it’s your right - but you need help finding an applicable list.
This is anonymous - so there is no one to out you - but I do think, having an array of people providing input on where you might look to achieve the cost you want - could be of the best service to you.
According to 2024-25 CDS: 39.3% given non-need based aid averaging $34,500 is encouraging, however… Last year with a tuition of $62,500 and room and board at $17,000 that made it >$80,000 a year – more than what her current school costs and significantly more than McGill (which may have to escalate costs due to structural deficit). CDS data reference = CDS section H2 lines N divided be line A, and line O.
Note that Tuition rose from $60,000 (2022/23) to $62,500 (2023/24) to $64,500 (2024/25). Other stats are in flux –- acceptance rate changed from 53% to 63% from 2023/24 to 2024/25 and the number of students submitting SAT and ACT dropped from 2023/24 to 2024/25.
You need to plug in your actual numbers- income, etc. to the net price calculators. It will only be an estimate, since the calculators are designed for freshman applicants in the current cycle (which is not your D) but it will be a better indication than looking at averages.
Again- what are your in-state options and are they affordable? start there before you get lost on a “Hey college is cheaper in Europe” tangent….
And why engineering now if she wasn’t interested a year ago? What has changed after only one semester at college???
Hello again and thank you, you assisted with a prior inquiry thread. So…
Gross numbers vs actual numbers - yes, we did that. I have a spreadsheet I built of 500 schools with calculations using CDS data and we also used their calculator(s). BTW we found the Forbes merit calculation to be pretty accurate.
In-state = Binghamton (accepted), SUNY/CUNY. If things get really bad for us financially when I am laid off, we can always pivot to Binghamton (which has improved steadily). Milan is still even less money and a vastly more interesting and an elevated experience (minus the ABET concern).
Engineering – this is not a change, she choose this after taking an RPI sponsored Intro to Engineering class (thank your RPI!) in her Jr year of high school.
What has changed after only one semester at college… It is more than a semester but to answer… my employment, job prospects (for me and her), inflation (more like 2+ years – my town hikes taxes 10% a year, college tuition) vs weak wage growth, politics.
You should be choosing a college that you can afford long term, not just skating by financially.
I don’t think Bing has improved per se. I think its national profile has. It’s always been a fine school. It’s about $31k for tuition, fees, room and board. There are cheaper OOS, not as many as being a freshman but still some. You are a U.S. News or other source dream They are to sell magazines and to get clicks.
You are adding a lot of things - like politics, that are hard to quantify.
Perhaps if you lose your job that one of the low income NY scholarships like TAP might come into play. You can look into that.
They do have various programs in Informatics, Applied Statistics&Biometry, and Applied Economics/Management which might appeal to someone looking for solid professional prospects and not yet settled on Engineering, but indeed for Engineering CALS only offers Environmental and Bio-Engineering.
If any of those were of interest it’d be worth it to run the NPC as a dislocated worker.
Everyone looks at US News / QS / Times. I am not immune to this but study / pay attention to CDS, grad school connections, and alumni network (which is less tangible), and some subjective nuances like school messaging and admissions behavior (Bryn Mawr only gave short answers which was a turn off for example), schools with earnest students / not historically entitled children.
Bing – you could be correct broadly but they have introduced new programs - academic and social. We were pleasantly surprised.
I’m very sorry to hear that this shift is because of an impending job loss. I also thought your daughter was still in high school.
For sure your daughter should be talking to her financial aid office as parental job loss is typically grounds for review and you may see more aid.
I would also encourage your family to do their due diligence about the governments, taxes, job market, housing and cost of living in any country your daughter is planning on studying and would potentially want to live in.
As I previously stated I have a lot of family still in Europe (in Italy and France). I will tell you that every country has their own problems, issues, inflation, taxes, cost of goods (fuel, food) etc… The grass isn’t always greener. We just don’t hear the level of detail in our news outlets. I’d encourage you to start reading the newspapers of the countries in consideration.
CALS – A tad concerned about the overarching Ag nature of the school not being a match for her but I will look into these again and share this with her since these 2 do have direct career possibilities – most likely she will go into an area where she can build things (she finds this exciting).
We also looked at Cornell University Industrial and Labor Relations (ILR) and I will look at that again as well.