Thank you. Yes we have done some greener fields research – jobs may be scarcer, taxes higher, but cost of living is lower. If ABET was compatible, she could always return.
OK, so let’s see if I have the narrative down.
Student decided on engineering before applying to college. Ended up choosing a 3-2 program, and is very happy at the current college even though it does not have an engineering program. Has strong HS stats and continues to perform well after one semester at this college. Likes the peer group, happy overall with the college which has an “elite” reputation per various sources and parent’s research.
BUT- parent and student realize that the 3-2 program means an extra year of tuition somewhere (TBD) AND the current LAC is also a stretch financially if the parent loses his/her job.
So the hunt is on for a cost effective way to get a BS in Engineering in the three years remaining (presumably parent has already paid for the second half of freshman year). Parent and student have a lot of items on the wish list and “must haves” but if worse comes to worse, Binghamton or one of the CUNY colleges with a strong engineering program would be affordable and acceptable options.
Do I have the details down correctly?
In addition, the family is worried about inflation down the road, employment prospects, and not being around overly entitled kids…. plus a bunch of other “soft” factors.
Yes, no?
Yes, this is correct, and sincere compliments to you on your integrative thinking ability. A couple other factors:
- She definitely has a goal of living in Europe (for aesthetics and food / quality of life).
- To get into certain Engineering Science (as opposed to Natural Science) masters programs in Europe (ETH, Poly Milano and most likely TUM) you have to have a nearly matching undergrad degree – so a 4 year BS degree in Physics will be a blocker to acceptance into a MA in Civil Engineering program. So, 2 years in her existing college and 3 years undergrad in Europe would cure that – but would not cure the ABET accreditation matter.
In the US I have boiled it down to these that are affordable and entering the realm of being rigorous enough —
- Binghamton,
- Cooper Union (great academy, not sure on how it would be socially),
- U Buffalo (***Curious how Binghamton and Buffalo compare)
- CUNY (but she prefers the above),
- Purdue
- A bit more expensive would be WPI and perhaps CALS (thank you MYOS1634 for the reminder on CALS).
- Union was a consideration and if push came to shove it could be again (but has its quirks with need to take extra classes to graduate on time — we learned).
I should note – she does like taking German as it balances her out from the core math and science (she likes and excels at all subjects – WPI does offer this opportunity (the only school I found that has this, Union does not).
In Europe:
- Politecnico di Milano has several good/real undergrad Engineering degrees in English (and housing!!!),
- Karlsruhe Institute of Technology has Mechanical Engineering in English
- Technical University of Denmark has General Engineering in English
- Institut Polytechnique de Paris is interesting but it is more like pre-engineering studies
- UK has terrible exchange rate and schools keep raising tuition, TCD is a maybe - not sure rigorous enough.
Any other ideas – especially in Europe – or thoughts on my original question about Poly Milan are appreciated.
Yes, I understand this – it has a high tuition unfortunately.
And thanks for feedback on Buffalo.
I don’t think everyone does. My kid eschewed Purdue with merit for Alabama and had two internships, 19 interviews and 5 offers by Xmas. I thought he was nuts. He told me what I’m telling you. Turns out he was right.
My kid turned down W&L for regional College of Charleston. Well dad turned it down - I said $50k max but she wouldn’t have chosen it anyway.
Kids often chase money. Neither of mine chose their schools for cheap so dad just got lucky. She’s in a highly selective social service job program.
Cornell changed their outcome page - they had until 6 months or so ago - but the far majority of kids found jobs via company websites and LinkedIn/indeed. Very few from alumni, on campus recruiting or job fairs. Maybe that’s why they took it down.
The internet is the great equalizer.
You are putting a lot of stock into the unknown but then are potentially bankrupting yourself. I showed you the UMN and UConn stats - salaries were similar to Swat and also U Mich and more. It’s why my son’s work cohort all came in at the same salary. He did 4 rotations in two years - four different cities. Irvine paid more than Utah so they adjusted by where you were. Michigan or W Michigan - they have both - didn’t matter. When he tried to negotiate the defense contractor in Mass - they said we don’t negotiate - all come in at $85k. One company did offer more money after he said no - significantly more - but it was in the heartland and Cedar Rapids Iowa amongst other places didn’t excite him. Cost of living vs salary wise it was the clear winner.
You’re wanting a name but it sounds like you can’t afford that name. And if she’s going to be an engineer, I doubt paying for that name is going to get you a single dollar of return.
If she hustles, she’ll win and while I don’t want to get into DEI type stuff, a female engineer is likely in even better shape.
You have financial issues - addressing that is the most important thing. I wish you were still in hs bcuz transferring does eliminate merit at many. The other thing - you don’t know if all her classes will transfer.
Please do a match me and provide your budget as it sounds like you are full so no need aid coming.
Obviously you pointed out Bing. If you can afford it or the other SUNYs, then great.
How would you afford Purdue? Not sure how transferring works but you aren’t assured your major at Purdue as a first year. But it will be significantly higher than your SUNYs.
@momofboiler1 did show an interesting international program at Purdue. Another potentially lower cost (but likely not SUNY cost) where you can double with German is URI.
Any interest in Portuguese ? German isn’t part of the language flagship but Portuguese is via Arizona or Georgia. Not sure if you can transfer in but you’d be fully immersed in the languages, study engineering, and it would come with financial support (maybe a lot) and potentially a job with the government overseas.
Europe (specifically the EU) is no longer a cakewalk for an American citizen trying to get work permits. And if the current administration of the US keeps up the saber rattling and NATO taunting, it will get worse not better. So the goal- working in Europe- is a lovely idea. But in the same way that the US is doing it’s darndest to make it hard for non-citizens to work here legally, it’s happening the other way around as well. So as much as I hate to harsh your buzz, the most viable plan (in my opinion) is to get a US engineering degree, get a job with a multi-national company in the US, work here for a few years and impress everyone with your skills, work ethic, etc. and then get a promotion or transfer to a European location. Then you’ve got a well paid team of immigration lawyers (not being paid by you, but being paid on your behalf) to make the work permit happen.
Studying German is smart. The German economy is significantly larger than the Italian economy, and so year to year volatility in hiring is never going to mean NO JOBS, it might mean fewer jobs. At companies I’ve worked for, when we’ve cut hiring targets for an Italian subsidiary or operation due to the economy, it can literally mean “hiring freeze”. It is costly, time consuming and expensive to fire someone in Italy (except for cause but the bar is very high) and so when hiring contracts, it could go to zero.
So German is a good move. It will take time for her German to be good enough for her to get a transfer as an American to a German operation, but she has time- she’s just a freshman!
The crown jewel in the CUNY system for engineering is at City College, where if memory serves, there are four or five ABET programs. Do not dismiss Cooper Union– the students that I know who have gone there are exceptional academically and intellectually, and done very well professionally. And socially they all do fine- there are colleges all over the five boroughs and plenty of students, activities, etc. going on every night. It isn’t the green/spacious campus/manicured garden type of college, but it offers very strong academics.
Have you looked at Missouri S&T if she wants a more residential/rural experience? Very rigorous academics and very serious students. Corporate employers LOVE the place. They know what it takes to graduate even if the general public has never heard of it.
Another idea for her is to consider the NGO type roles… disaster relief, various arms and legs of the UN, Doctors without Borders, World Bank. Anyone moving supplies, vaccines, clean water, rebuilding homes after a volcano needs engineers. Civil or Mechanical probably gives her the most flexibility here. These will not be highly paid for a new grad though…. so if you’re worried about compensation, getting a job in the US with a German industrial company or a French aerospace company is going to be a more lucrative path.
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The other thing - many European companies that are global use English as the official language and many, maybe most employees, are fluent in English.
There are a lot of German companies in the South…other places too but with automotive a leading industry, the South is where one would end up if wanting to be in automotive…although VW has its HQ outside DC. But South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama and more have large German presences for both sales and marketing and manufacturing.
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Yes. Business will be conducted in English.
But if you are staffed at an R&D facility in the hinterlands (which is where engineers end up– R&D, Manufacturing operations, distribution centers….) the guy at the cash register at your grocery store, your landlord, the woman who delivers your dinner, etc. will NOT likely be speaking English.
It would be great if the engineering roles were in the equivalent of downtown Paris, Rome, Berlin. But that’s not where companies put their real estate hungry operations!
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Ehhhhh - I’ll tell you, at least for manufacturing at a global company - they all speak English. Wouldn’t get hired otherwise - at least in my industry. It’s amazing how bilingual and trilingual much of Europe is. My niece, who lives in the Netherlands, tells me the same - even within the grocery stores and restaurants.
Maybe not the cashier or waiter but in the professional world….and at least the more prominent countries like Germany.
Why are you arguing- I’m agreeing with you.
Your colleagues will speak English. The people in your neighborhood out in rural wherever, which is where the manufacturing facility is likely located, will not, barring the schoolteachers and anyone else with a college degree. Speaking the local language makes you a more valuable employee when management is deciding who gets the promotion and relocation overseas.
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Agree, her goal is not to live in a city, knowing another language has its own rewards as well. And, she loves learning German in itself and it is good for the brain long term.
Yes, deeply concerned about the geo-politics, and thanks for feedback on Germany. Going with a German or International co is another path – and a likely one.
Yes, this is what I meant by CUNY, thanks
Will look into thanks
Low out of start tuition. and yes the GEARE program is interesting.
Will look at those other programs, thanks
Note Purdue has an engineering surcharge and there was discussion about raising OOS tuition but it didn’t happen. It could. UF is similarly priced and may see increases.
Lower cost schools are like UAH - under $40k and at least $3k merit - but as a first year it could have been over $20k so maybe the at least can go higher.
Tennessee Tech is another low cost, excellent school, like Missouri S&T.
There lots but the SUNYs will all be great so if you can afford them, they’re great options.
And thank you very much @blossom for sharing your insight about company hiring. Time to try applying for scholarships again.