Thoughts on Uniform Policy?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Okay, so this is my school’s uniform policy:</p>

<p>School IDs must be displayed above the waist.
SOLID khaki or SOLID navy blue bottoms.
SOLID navy, SOLID GOLD, or SOLID white tops – Collared (shirts worn under tops must be white)
Sweatshirts, sweaters, light jackets, and outer wear (jackets, coats) must be
• SOLID navy blue, SOLID white, SOLID gold, or SOLID khaki
• School sweatshirts are recommended and available in quantity.
• Logos may not be larger than the size of a “quarter” coin.
STANDARDS/RULES:
• Size appropriate clothing is required.
• Shirts or tops must be collared unless student is wearing an approved spirit t-shirt in its place.
• Approved school spirit t-shirts may be worn daily. (See photos on website).
• No bare midriffs.
• Undergarments may not be exposed. Under t-shirts must be tucked in.
• Students may not wear jean/denim clothing at any time. Khaki overalls are permitted.
• School team jerseys and warm-ups may be worn on game days.
• Shoes must adhere to LBUSD standards.
• Shorts and skirts must be fingertip length or longer.
• Hoods must remain down at all times on campus.
• Hats, head bands, wave caps, bandannas, hairnets, and combs in the hair are not permitted.
• Tears, holes, patches, slits in the seams, and ragged hems in clothes and shoes are not permitted.
• No gloves, chains, badges, patches, spiked accessories, and initialed belt buckles.
• No tank tops, swimsuits, short shorts, beach attire, low neckline, low back line, spaghetti straps, or
shoulder exposing garments are permitted.
• No gang-related writing on backpacks, shoes, and clothing.
• Leggings must be SOLID navy, SOLID white, SOLID khaki, or SOLID gold.
• Approved school hats, beanies, and headwear may be worn outside, only.
ENFORCEMENT: (Citations are issued on all offenses)
Dress code violators will be assigned to detention after school. Repeat offenders are subject to progressive
discipline.
School’s dress standards were reviewed and revised by a committee of parents, students and staff in
April, 2007 and then approved by the Site Council in May, 2007. This code will remain in effect
throughout the entire 2007-2008 school year.</p>

<p>Now: I go to a PUBLIC high school. </p>

<p>I don’t really understand what making us all wear the same clothes is going to accomplish. Girls still compare who is wearing A&F vs. Hollister vs. whatever else the heck is cool (I don’t really participate), but now the main competition is HANDBAGS. Yes, handbags. So it can’t possibly be a competition thing. And I was wondering what parents thought.</p>

<p>Note: We never get any “casual” days AT ALL. Jeans are never allowed. Even during “Spirit Week” for Homecoming/Spring Week, we get days like Pirate Day and we still have to be in uniform, only our accessories can follow the theme. Is it just me, or is this a bit extreme for a public high school?</p>

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<p>I’m amazed; I had no idea a public school were allowed to be so controlling. </p>

<p>The issue of uniforms used to come up periodically when my kids were in elementary school. I understood both sides, and found some aspects appealing. But I always voted no for one reason: The girls’ uniform always was a dress or skirt, no pants option, and I wasn’t willing to send my girls to school in skirts. (We had foster kids at the time, so I had more than one D then.) </p>

<p>I’m curious if there are more public schools in your area for those who don’t want to attend a “uniform” school? Do you get any choice over where to attend?</p>

<p>My middle kid wanted to attend a private school when he was in about 3rd grade or so, and we investigated it. Had to tell him no because of the dress code, which said, as yours does, “Tears, holes, patches, slits in the seams, and ragged hems in clothes and shoes are not permitted.” My S at that point in his life (and for many years either side) did not own a pair of pants longer than a day or two without getting a hole in them. We wouldn’t be able to keep him appropriately dressed.</p>

<p>This topic reminds me of trying to enroll my D in 9th grade in a German Gymnasium. We ran into a bit of a language problem when we were trying to establish whether or not there was a dress code. “No, no uniforms here,” the head master told us. I tried again. “But are there any rules about what to wear?” He looked confused, then admitted, “Well… you have to wear SOMEthing.”</p>

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<p>I did go to a school where we had to wear uniforms, but that was many many moons ago :slight_smile: . I remember vividly how I’d make a bunch of rags out of my uniform on the first day of our summer break and then hand them over to my dad to use in his shop. We all looked similarly ugly in those uniforms, but girls still managed to have “competitions” over shoes, earrings, coats, scarfs, etc. - anything that was not “standardized”. Where there is a will…</p>

<p>I’m not a fan of baggy pants, bare midriffs, and any part of underwear sticking out, but I’d say your school’s dress code is pretty harsh and somewhat discriminatory towards people who due to their religious beliefs have to have their heads covered. I bet there is a lot of energy and time spent on the enforcement of these policies.</p>

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<p>Binx-There is only one school in our district that no longer has a uniform policy…maybe 2, I’d have to check. The one that doesn’t I’d never want to go to.</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my school. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. The uniform policy just irks me.</p>

<p>BunsenBurner-yes and no. Some teachers are real jerks about it, and actually will not let you in the classroom without proper attire. Others (all the ones I like) always say, "I have more important things to do with my students’ time than spend 20 minutes making sure your shoelaces are the right color (I swear it’s headed that way).</p>

<p>Not only that, but they have staff assistants at the gate every day making sure that students are in dress code. Those that are not are sent home-violation of the Constitution anyone?</p>

<p>Also, if we don’t have our Student IDs, we have to BUY a temporary ID for $1.</p>

<p>We’re also made to sign a contract every summer stating that we’re going to wear uniform, so if anyone complains they’re just like “Well, you signed the contract blahblahblah”.</p>

<p>And if we don’t sign the contract, we are not allowed to register for school.</p>

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<p>OP, try as an interesting mental exercise for critical thinking, going through that list and decide which you think are to reduce distractions for learning, and which are class prejudice to keep the school from looking poor. I think you’ll make some interesting personal conclusions.</p>

<p>Here’s what I think:</p>

<p>The part about no blue jeans is really strange. Denim is one of the most affordable, versatile fabrics on the market. It can look upscale or downscale. </p>

<p>Banning it reminds me of the l960’s when our parents fought our generation over it (hippies in blue jeans). I believe that jeans began as prison garb turn-of-the-century and were later worn by rural farmers and blue collar WW-II factory workers. In the conformist l950;s under Eisenhower post WWII, the adults wanted us to look like corporate citizens at public school, not factory workers, farmers or prisoners. It was a class thing. So one of the first things middle-class kids did, upon arriving at college, was wear blue jeans 24/7. We had always worn them after school during h.s., but it sure felt great to be comfortable in a classroom in jeans.</p>

<p>We embraced denim because it was heavy duty, comfortable and affordable and DIDN’t turn into holes as fast as wool or cotton clothing. By the time the jeans turned “holey” (after owning and loving a pair for many years) they represented many good times and memories to the individual.</p>

<p>Then there was an era of expensive denim clothing. I saw a middle-aged lady in the l970’s, wearing jewelry and a rhinestone-studded denim pantsuit worth hundreds of dollars, turned away from a finer restaurant because of her “bluejean pants.” She was speechless. (I was standing behind her). The management held firm. It was ridiculous and my date and I left. </p>

<p>Then designer jeans came out and that put a new spin on it all. It was possible to pay more than a hundred dollars for a pair of jeans, which spun the minds of the parents who grew up in the l960’s. It was the ultimate justice, I suppose, that our own kids fought us on the subject of “jeans” and while we also love wearing them, we objected to their cost now. </p>

<p>So when I first read “no jeans” I thought they were discriminating against poor kids, but perhaps instead they’re protecting poor kids with that policy.</p>

<p>Still, I think there’s nothing wrong wearing jeans. Outlawing jeans is just irritating to me, and not relevant to the goal of skin modesty which could arguably be a distracting factor to learning (the purpose of school) among schoolaged kids coming to terms with their own sexuality. </p>

<p>As a teacher, I’ll share with you that my personal problem with hats is only that the brims hide the student’s face when they’re working or looking down on their books. I depend upon watching a student’s face, especially their eyes, to see if they are understanding things or look confused. It gives me important feedback and I actually adjust my lesson as I teach it (the mark of a good teacher) depending on that visual feedback. When students “hide” under sweatshirt hoods or under the brim of a hat, it simply makes it harder for me to teach well. In some schools, I’ve asked boys to merely turn the brim backwards while in my room because my real desire is to see their face, not to squash their identity, pride or sports team of choice. </p>

<p>I agree that if there’s a dress code that declares no head covering, there should be a clause, “except for religious reasons” although I suppose someone could wearing not just a headscarf (Muslim) or kipa (Jewish) but anything outrageous and call that “part of my religion” so I’m not sure where that would go.</p>

<p>The part about finger-length skirts amused me, frankly. When mini-skirts came out in the mid-1960’s I attended an all-girls’ public school. The principal required us to kneel in front of her. If our skirt did not touch the floor, we were sent home. Then granny dresses came out, which were ankle-length but equally rebellious and hippie. She had no control over them and it frustrated her greatly. </p>

<p>The idea overall is that anything DISTRACTING TO LEARNING has no place in a school, whether it’s cellphones or visible underpants elastic. I still recall how distracting it was to learning that our dress code (growing up) disallowed girls from wearing PANTS (skirts, only), which was very cold in winter. We used “leggings” (older brother’s pants) on the cold trip to and from school, and left them in the closet as they weren’t allowed in class. Tights were invented, and that helped a bit but they were constricting and uncomfortable IMO. So that was one where the dress code made its own learning distraction.</p>

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<p>timed out: many of the things on your school’s list seem to be about reducing communication within and among gangs. I’m wondering if it helps reduce gang communication in actual fact, or is it just the school’s statement against gangs in general. Again, it’s just an exercise in critical thinking to ponder that question. I know you have a great future with wider horizons, obviously.</p>

<p>&lt;/p>

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<p>My kids went to a private school which had uniforms- khacki pants/shorts, collared solid shirts (three colors), special jackets, sweats, gym uniforms, etc. It was less expensive to outfit them for school. There was a huge “used uniform” sale every summer, and most people had friends whose kids were graduating and would pass along their old uniforms. The fabric they make the clothing out of was indestructable. Usually I only had to buy a handful of new items each year, between passing them down or being able to still fit into them. When we shopped for street clothes, it was liberating because we didn’t have to worry about whether stuff was appropriate for school.</p>

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<p>we had to fill out a survey in junior high on what we thought about uniforms. We all pretty much wrote that if we wanted to wear uniforms to school we would attend private school. That was the last time I heard any discussion of it.</p>

<p>I also don’t see what the problem is with jeans… as long as they are decent looking. My company is very casual and we wear jeans to work a lot… I won’t say every day, but more often then just on ‘casual Fridays’… and I work for a huge fortune 100 company, so I would think if we can wear jeans so can high school kids.</p>

<p>I will say however I saw girls wear jeans in high school that were “too tight”… many guys with jeans that were “too loose” (we actually had a guy in my bowling league who went up to bowl and his pants fell down because they were so loose. It was pretty funny seeing them around his ankles), or shirts not long enough to cover their stomachs and whatnot, so I would think the horrible uniform policy is trying to keep everyone even… but it’s still a stupid rule.</p>

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<p>One of the arguments for pushing uniforms at our school was that it would be cheaper. Buy a few sets and your school shopping is done. However, the flaw in that was that I shop cheap, my kids wear hand-me-downs, and when they told me I’d be able to outfit my kid for a mere $400 or whatever, I realized that was significantly more than I was used to spending. And my kid would still need a full wardrobe for after school and weekends.</p>

<p>I had a piano student who attended a private school with a basic uniform - khaki or navy bottoms, Red, white, or navy tops. And pieces had to conform to certain standards. It seemed like a reasonable enough uniform for a private school.</p>

<p>Public schools can make their own rules, I guess, as long as everyone agrees. I wonder what would happen regarding truancy if some folks banded together to refuse. It seems like I’ve heard of schools’ rules being upheld as long as they were agreed upon by a majority and were not discriminatory. If you claimed financial hardship, I think the school might have to provide the uniform, but it doesn’t have to be new, well-fitting, or multiple outfits.</p>

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<p>I was just glad at my school that they asked the students - I don’t believe they got back a single “Yes, we want uniforms!” And like I said, we never heard anything of it after that.</p>

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<p>All schools in our county - public and private - wear uniforms, except for the statewide public boarding high school for math and science, and a couple of alternative high schools for “dropouts with money” - kids who are flunking out of regular high schools, private usually, sometimes public.
The public schools have long detailed policies like you list, and you can buy the khakis anywhere. The private schools tend to have “real” uniforms, with everyone buying from the same store.</p>

<p>Having said that, the rules you listed are more restrictive than those at my kids’ school, which is one of the more restrictive private schools. I agree, those read like rules aimed at gang activity, which is not a big concern at their school. There is still some oneupmanship, particularly in middle school over backpacks, and to a lesser extent purses, but really very little in high school. Uniforms are a BIG help in elementary school, and really tone down the onwupmanship in the higher grades.</p>

<p>I will say this, a friend has children in an exclusive and expensive private school in a nearby big city. At this school, as a matter of policy and pride, they do NOT have uniforms - politically incorrect for them. But, their dress code was so detailed and restrictive that uniforms would have been much easier for everyone - even in elementary school they could wear no jeans, nothing with any kind of logo or writing at all, no pictures - think about t-shirts for 5 year olds with no Little Mermaid, think about trying to get your 5 year old to wear that plain blue tshirt everyday! My friend, the Mom, at first bought into this idea of individuality, but after a couple of years of tussling with her younger D, she was ready for standard clothing for everyone.</p>

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<p>My kids have never attended a school with uniforms or detailed clothing policy.
I don’t think teachers should be made into the clothing police.
At Ds urban public they don’t even have restrictions on footwear. D was wearing flip flops to school one day and I asked her if they let her wear that to school , she said " the teachers wear them" !</p>

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<p>My public high school had no difficulty declaring granny dresses “disrupting”. They were outlawed along with miniskirts. Girls were not allowed to wear slacks of any sort. When I left for college, I threw away every skirt I owned and wore nothing but jeans or very casual pants for years.</p>

<p>Once in a while the issue of uniforms comes up in our local schools, but it never goes anywhere. I’m a bit ambivalent on the question. On the one hand, I’m not a fan of arbitrary control and trying to force everyone into the same mold, but on the other hand, I see a lot of young people who seem not to be figuring out how to present an appearance that does not immediately turn off people who have the power to influence their future.</p>

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<p>See, I don’t have a problem with most of the rules. I almost never wear hats or anything like that, and I don’t really have a problem wearing polo shirts-I’ve actually gotten some really comfortable ones.</p>

<p>But these are the big issues I have with our uniform policy:</p>

<p>-No jeans. Like you others have said, they’re comfortable and more durable than most fabrics. And they could still apply the “clothes must fit right” rule, so I don’t understand why jeans are considered evil. Besides, we wear jeans all the time anyway so I don’t think it’s the money issue.
-It’s more expensive for my parents because I have to have a whole wardrobe for school and then a whole separate wardrobe for after school/weekends.
-The teachers/administration do not have to follow it. This is the BIGGEST problem for most of us: why should the administration get to set rules for us that they themselves aren’t going to follow? Some of the teachers are nice and wear uniform anyway, but most of them just don’t care.</p>

<p>There are a few other problems I have, but it’s time for me to get ready for school. These are all great points, guys…I do live in an “urban” area, so I can understand the gang point-of-view, but I don’t think it has stopped it completely.</p>

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<p>A uniform won’t stop gang activity. I went to a school that phased out uniforms. I think I was lucky though to have attended at a time (late 60s early 70s) when dressing down was in fashion. There were some very wealth girls there as well as plenty of normal middle class ones. I was mostly clueless about class differences at the time.</p>

<p>I don’t mind dress codes if they are reasonable. I don’t want to see midriffs and crotches and underwear. And I don’t believe hats should be worn inside. (But religious headgear is fine with me.) And of course girls should be allowed to wear pants.</p>

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<p>My back to school shopping this year: less than $100 (jeans can be found at TJ Maxx for less than $20, and D needed new pants). Her shirts and other tops still fit, and D even “recycled” her sister’s tolo dress. If I were to buy new khakis, I would have spent a great deal of time and money trying to locate pants that are reasonably priced, look fashionable enough for a teenager to wear and do not wrinkle or stain easily. Around here, such pants are hard to find. Yeah, I’m cheap, but this way I have more money left to pay tuitions.</p>

<p>No jeans policy is ridiculous. Ds high school has a very lenient dress policy, quite a stepdown from the dress rules she had in middle school. There is the “no underwear” clause, but spaghetti straps, no more than 1 inch of midriff showing, and mini skirts are allowed. I guess the school administration decided to pick their battles.</p>

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<p>

  • :eek: Is this where Britney Spears attended??</p>
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<p>^XD she means that your underwear cannot be showing.</p>

<p>The no jeans part is the only thing that realllllllly gets on my nerves. I just don’t see why jeans are considered "evil’. In fact, that’s what kids get sent home the most for: wearing jeans. What a waste of a policy.</p>

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<p>I’m wearing jeans. Nyah nyah. </p>

<p>Not too often an adult my age gets envied for her clothes.</p>

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<p>Hisgracefillsme-
I know what BB meant- I was just being funny (well, I guess not :frowning: ).
The “no jeans” thing happened in some local schools several yrs ago in response to the Colorado HS shooting and the ability of the kids to bring in weapons inside baggy jeans and/or big coats. I guess they can’t ban raincoats, but, short of a metal detector (which some schools do use) , it is easier to check a coat than to check someones pants (can you say sexual harassment accusation??)</p>