<p>I’ve never bought a new car. My pattern in the last 17 years has been to buy a two-year-old car, letting someone else absorb the initial depreciation hit, etc. I haven’t bought a car from a dealership since my early 20’s and TheMom has never bought a new car either. </p>
<p>I may go the two-year-old route again but I’m also heavily considering buying new. If it matters, target vehicles are in the upscale or low-end luxury category, i.e., a real estate car.</p>
<p>I’ve read the Consumer Reports New Car Guide, which has some good info but I’d be interested in hearing more about things that worked well for you, things that didn’t, how you may have gotten screwed by a dealer, how you prevented yourself from getting screwed by a dealer, etc. I’m not particularly interested in recs for makes/models, that I’ve nailed down to my own satisfaction.</p>
<p>Funny, but whereas real estate is a pretty transparent sea for me, car buying is more like plunging into murky pond water.</p>
<p>At this time dealers are about 3/4ths of the way through the model year. If you buy a new car now you ought to get a significant discount. You’ll get an even biger one if you can wait 3-6 months when dealers will be selling 2008 models and want to get the 2007 ones off their lots.</p>
<p>One thing to watch out for is that some dealers add a markup above the MSRP (manufacturers suggested retail price) for no good reason except to raise the price before they start discounting. Someties it might be justified because that particular model is in high demand; other times it’s just a scam. So if you see that on a sticker, don’t start negotiating based on that prcie.</p>
<p>You’re informed so you will do pretty well negotiating price. What you want to watch out for are the extras, like $2,500 extended warranties, $500 undercoating, $1,500 paint protection coatings, and $600 charges for “gap” insurance. Being a former victim/customer for some of these things, I would suggest, “just say no.” There’s nothing at the dealer that you can’t buy separately and usually cheaper. (The only exception might be gap insurance, which – if you are financing the car – covers the difference between the current loan value and the amount the insurance company would be willing to pay in the event of a total loss of the vehicle. I called my insurance company on this and they told me that the particular plan being sold by the dealer was about the same as they would charge to add it on our policy.)</p>
<p>Make sure you come back and tell us what you bought. Actually, if you are in real estate, how about leasing? If you are in sales, leasing a new car every three years might be better than purchasing and, as you know, has some tax benefits.</p>
<p>I use Consumer’s Report also. I usually buy my new cars in late summer just before the year change.
Check out the Edmunds site. There are forums there for every make/model and a couple mainly used by dealer sales and finance people.</p>
<p>Somewhere on the internet there is probably a forum for the car you are interested in. A lot of them are infested by teenagers and aren’t worth much, but others (miata.net for example) are goldmines of information for potential buyers. It doesn’t take much to tell the difference.</p>
<p>Instead of negotiating down from retail, you want to negotiate up from the dealer’s cost. Numbers for dealer cost can be found at several web sites like edmunds.com. Be aware that the dealers sometimes get special incentives from the manufacturers so that their actual cost can be even less than the dealer cost numbers published on the websites. </p>
<p>If you are looking at a popular model, you may have to offer them close to the retail price. If it is super popular, they may even get a premium above the MSRP. If the model is not selling as fast, a couple of hundred over dealer cost will generally close the deal on a car that is sitting in the dealer’s lot. Don’t forget to look for buyer incentives and don’t let the dealer convince you that they come out of his pocket. They come straight from the manufacturer to the buyer in most cases.</p>
<p>DoS, good point…I am mentally figuring that the 2008’s are almost here and setting my target prices accordingly. I’m trying to work “up” from invoice as much as possible, ignoring MRSP.</p>
<p>WD, I like actually owning something and the way my work is structured, I get a pretty good tax write-off as it is, about 95 percent of all auto-related expenses…a home-office helps a lot and structuring one’s trips about town does wonders. Just “saying no” is my initial impulse to all the add-ons.</p>
<p>CMB, was the haggling minimum from the sticker price? The three cars I’m looking at are a new Toyota Avalon, a new Lexus 350, and a used Lexus 430.
I have an Avalon now and have liked it a lot. But TheMom’s Camry has 130K miles on it and has reached the point where we need to slide one seat around the tea party table.</p>
<p>Also, be aware that dealers are under incredible pressure each and every month to make their numbers – ie, sell a certain number of cars. So if you go shopping on the 29th or the 30th of the month, you will probably do better than if you go in on the 1st or 2nd of the month, when they have the next month to make their numbers. They’ll be more willing to knock off another $500 on the 30th than on the 15th.</p>
<p>I haggle up from the dealer’s cost and that is not the invoice price. There are incentives built into that as someone else posted. I have always found that buying off the lot at the end of the model year (and the end of the month)was best for us. Be prepared to walk away. I have done that and later gotten a call that they will accept my offer. And if you are financing through them (and a lot are offering 0% charges right now) know that the dealer and sales get money from that end of the deal also. I have tried the online buying but that did not work for me. I know how much I am willing to pay for a car and if they cannot or will not meet that price I am gone. </p>
<p>Edmunds.com can help you figure out the dealer cost and what a car is going for in your part of the country. And do check their forums but it may be info overload if you have never bought a new car. It can be a wild ride. </p>
<p>I was looking at Nissan and Honda this go round and we never even got close to my price point. The demand is high enough for the Accord and Altima that the dealers do not feel the need to deal.</p>
<p>Another interesting thing to remember is that today’s cars are ALL a lot better than 10 or 15 years ago. A car that earned a “less reliable than average” rating this year in Consumer Reports could very well have earned a “much better than average” 15 years ago. CR has never claimed to be an absolute measure of quality – only a relative ranking. You might get a great deal by buying a less-favored model rather than the most popular in a particular class, and see very little real difference in longevity.</p>
<p>Also, (I seem to have a lot of “alsos”) CR judges cars pretty much the way they judge toasters. If you have a less utilitarian view of autos, I’d suggest both <a href=“http://www.edmunds.com%5B/url%5D”>www.edmunds.com</a> and <a href=“http://www.caranddriver.com%5B/url%5D”>www.caranddriver.com</a>. I want a car that is interesting to drive as well as not leave me stranded. You couldn’t pay me to drive most Toyotas, for example. Reliable, but also proven sleep aids.</p>
<p>When my son bought a new Civic last year, my husband and my son got Internet quotes from dealers in the area where my son was located. The dealer had one salesperson who only dealt with internet customers. They knew that the price was very good, as they had informaton on the actual dealer’s cost. If you can do this for the models you are interested in, you can probably get a very good price ahead of time and just go in and buy the car with no haggling. It was all very cut and dry when my son bought his car.</p>
<p>TheDad - I was also someone who would buy hand-me-down cars from my father and otherwise try to minimize the cost of cars, which I see as tools, not fashion statements.</p>
<p>However, 7 years ago I bit the bullet and, after carefully shopping, bought a brand new Acura TL with the intention of driving it for 10 years or more. Well, it has exceeded every expectation, and at 7 years old still looks great, only has 85K on it, and I have no doubt it’ll go 5 more years for me. </p>
<p>The total non-scheduled maint cost on the car has been one engine mount ($300).</p>
<p>In short, I recommend that you pay up for a high end new or slighly used car (Honda, Lexus, Acura, etc) - it’ll pay you back for many years in terms of reliability and cost of ownership. Don;t fear paying up - you get what you pay for. ANd buying a 2 yearold Acura or Lexus may not be a clear way to go because they hold their value so well - it might be a good move to simply buy new. GOod luck and have fun.</p>
<p>We bought our last two cars using Costco. We researched on edmunds and knew what we wanted to pay. The Costco price is set. It is not always available on all models. At Toyota we dealt with the owner and at the BMW dealer with the head of internet sales. Both times it was painfree. Interestly at the BMW dealer we said upfront we were not interested in anything extra and they didn’t push it.
You can do the same thing through AAA.</p>
<p>Agree with finding the head of Internet sales. But WATCH OUT for the “finance manager”. He “unknowingly” tried to put my price back up to MSRP. That way the sales guy gets to be good cop and the “finance manager” is the bad cop.</p>
<p>However that may be the kind of tactic they reserve for us of the female persuasion:(. Luckily I had enough secret testosterone to object.</p>
<p>I second going to <a href=“http://www.edmunds.com%5B/url%5D”>www.edmunds.com</a> - their forums are a great place to get information, there are articles that answer the question you’ve asked here as well as really helpful discussion forums. I especially found the the Prices Paid threads helpful for negotiating a price. Just as with CC you can do a keyword search (for example the name of your state under the Prices Paid Car XXX thread) and find posts from people in your region and discover which dealerships are giving the best prices for the model you want. </p>
<p>Once you have this information in hand, email the Internet Sales department of those dealerships and ask them to give you their best price quote, including whatever packages and options you’re interested in. After that, you can contact the internet sales office of your local dealership to see if they will match the price. Make sure they know that you are willing to travel to buy the car and that you are going to take the best price you get. </p>
<p>You don’t have to compromise on what you want, either - using this technique you can get the car you want, the color you want and all the options you want. Anyway, the key to negotiating a good price is to deal with internet sales ONLY and to comparison shop with places known to give great deals, even if they are a state or two away from yours.</p>
<p>For virtual test drive info I stumbled across <a href=“http://www.consumerguide.com%5B/url%5D”>www.consumerguide.com</a> - their road test ratings always seem to match up to my own experiences. Also read Consumer Reports and caranddriver.com.</p>
<p>For safety ratings, check out <a href=“http://www.iihs.org%5B/url%5D”>www.iihs.org</a> - all kinds of info on there as well as <a href=“http://www.nhtsa.com%5B/url%5D”>www.nhtsa.com</a>.</p>
<p>I checked with the expert shopper in the family. He’s a car guy, lover not seller, that is. He concurs with BassDad, deals are all about inventory. Your Southern CA location is your best advantage to cast a wide net in search of inventory. </p>
<p>He likes the game, does his research, and is a patient and persistent shopper. He’ll walk from deals until they’re right. He just helped my parents get out of a royal rip-off on a Honda accord. He tried to help my parents upfront, but they impulsively went out and bought a “pretty one.” They were sold everything under the sun, undercoat, lo-jack, oil-changes, the works, a horrible trade-in price, and 8 yr financing to help my parents get their payments within their budget. Never mind that they have excellent credit, and had already secured a great rate from their credit union. Worse yet, the contract was written for a sport model, but they drove off with a basic model. </p>
<p>He knew he had them when the contract was written for a different model than the car they drove off with. He spent the day re-negotiating every part of the contract, and CA no longer has the 3-day right-to-cancel policy on new cars. My job was to keep my parents quiet while he did the talking. My mom kept agreeing to new things, and my H was ready to strangle her. </p>
<p>Full disclosure, my H has paid full price for rare models that he could not pass on. As WashDad notes, everyone’s cost-benefit analysis is individual.</p>
<p>Toyota, Acura etc are all excellent. We have a large and a smaller Toyota sedan and both are excellent. We did buy the service package which includes all scheduled service for the first five years at a decent discount and a fixed price. The models we bought were in demand so had to pay sticker but had the second sticker stuff all deleted at no charge. Still got the semi-useless addon stuff but at least it was free. We enjoy having the dealer service as it is highly convenient and they always wash and vacuum the car so I don’t have to often. I’d buy again there anytime.</p>