Thoughts, tips about buying a new car?

<p>Notredame’s post reminds me-- buy at the end of the month to get the best deals.</p>

<p>Be careful with Craigslist. We got a decent car for younger s after his accident a few mos ago, but there are a lot of bogus ones there too. DO NOT buy from a third party, ie, if someone says that they are out of the country on business and someone is selling their car for them, or if they say they will ship it from out of state (but are posting in your city) STAY AWAY. If it sounds too good to be true, it is.</p>

<p>cartera45 I saw your post about putting Hummer owners in jail and I knew you must be a Prius owner. Read on and perhaps turn yourself (or that pollution machine you own) in…</p>

<p>Central Connecticut State University
Editorial & Commentary
March 7, 2007</p>

<p>Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
by Chris Demorro
© 2007 The Recorder</p>

<p>The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally-conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.</p>

<p>Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius. The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine of the type found in most cars today, and a battery-powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy-efficient and environmentally-sound car, right?</p>

<p>You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests, which affect all 2008 models, give a much more realistic rating, with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.</p>

<p>However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse. Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles. The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery, and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare. “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.</p>

<p>All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce? Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet. </p>

<p>When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer – the Prius’s arch nemesis. Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid. The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius, and use less combined energy doing it.</p>

<p>So, if you are really an environmentalist – ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available – a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage – buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot. One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.</p>

<p>Hummer owners still need to be put in jail :;</p>

<p>Collegemom - I’ve read about 100 versions of that article and the many articles that debunk it. Even if it’s all true, I still hate hummers.</p>

<p>I own an H3 so I guess you hate on me despite the fact that my vehicle actually gets pretty good mileage. I personally sneer at Prius owners mostly because they sneer at me…such a virtuous lot…and the Prius is such an unattractive and environmentally unsound car…the new status symbol for rich, guilty liberals…do you buy carbon exchanges as well??? ;)</p>

<p>I don’t have any reason to hate you. Everyone makes bad choices now and then. And I wish I were a rich, guilty liberal. I’m a struggling, proud liberal. Rich, guilty liberals own the customized Prius - more than one usually. They charter private planes to carry their Priuses with them.</p>

<p>I didn’t say you hate me, I said you hate on me… don’t beat yourself up too much over choosing that Prius…as for me I’m glad to be a happily middle class H3 driving moderate. ;)</p>

<p>No, we don’t sell carbon exchanges. Just pay the 100 percent resource hog surcharge and we’ll happily send you on your way.</p>

<p>===</p>

<p>I’ve spoken to Internet reps for four dealers now. Tentative prices quoted seem to be with $1,000 from low to high, going about mid-way between dealer’s cost and invoice price. </p>

<p>The equipment packages are still a little unclear to me. The Base model is pretty good but doesn’t include the super-premium (Levinson) sound system. To get that and the Navigation system, I have to go to the Premium-Plus model which also includes rear-view camera and park-assist, neither of which I want and I’m not willing to shell out an additional $3,600 or so for the privilege. </p>

<p>Bearing further examination is the question of the Bluetooth audio so that I can integrate my cellphone with the car…<em>that</em> is worth something to me, considering my business, but I don’t know what, if anything, that will run or if it’s only available with a premium package that I don’t want.</p>

<p>Inching and slouching… I’m targeting the end of this month for the actual purchase.</p>

<p>TheDad-
Which car are you honing in on?</p>

<p>Jym, I’m looking very hard at a new Lexus ES 350 (sedan). It’s only about $3K or so more expensive than a new Avalon and would hold its value better. Plus I think it’s a more fun to drive, the Avalon–as much as I love it–being something of a gunboat. Plus, I’m finding that the amount of cash that I have to put into it is less than I had anticipated, which, there being one more year of my share of the tuition payments, counts for something.</p>

<p>Otoh, as much as I’d like to get a used LS 430, I can’t get the year/mileage/price to line up in a comfort zone. E.g., I don’t want to buy Used with more than 30K miles on the vehicle and I really don’t want older than 2004, preferably 2005. And then there’s price. Confucius look at those preferences and say, “Not happening.” It’s not uncommon that I find myself looking “one car ahead” when I’m shopping…e.g., I looked some used ES 300’s when I ultimately bought my current Avalon. The cycle before it was different levels of Camry.</p>

<p>My son tells me that on South Park they had a car called the Pious that emits a cloud of smug. Heh.</p>

<p>Realize that you can get a pretty good aftermarket navigation system that includes a Bluetooth interface for your phone for under $400.</p>

<p>Stumbled into this <a href=“http://www.carmax.com/dyn/factsheet/factsheet.aspx?id=0[/url]”>http://www.carmax.com/dyn/factsheet/factsheet.aspx?id=0&lt;/a&gt; whouch they would bring to your local Carmax for $149. I don’t know what kind of prices you are getting, but this is an '07 with only 5K mi on it!
If you get a used car, spend the $25 and register for a month’s worth of unlimited title searches on carfax.com. All you need is the VIN number of the car. You can check the title and accident history. Well worth it!</p>

<p>wait-- that link isnt working anymore, but I just saw the car on their website. You can look for it yourself. It is in Las vegas. If you go directly the the Carmax website you can pull up this 2007 Lexus ES 350 (white) with 5K mi. The link says its out of inventory but I dont think itis correct-- just a broken link</p>

<p>(oops-- its the ES, and the asking price is $35,599)</p>

<p>“No, we don’t sell carbon exchanges. Just pay the 100 percent resource hog surcharge and we’ll happily send you on your way.”</p>

<p>TheDad just who is exactly is this >>>>>>Royal<<<<<< we???</p>

<p>As for your Lexus ES 350 (sedan) I looked at the mileage and it is suprisingly close to my H3 so I expect you will be paying the “Royal we’s” as well??? Can I attach surcharges to things other people buy that I don’t approve of???</p>

<p>WashDad I must see this episode. I will ask my youngest son (huge South Park fan) to find it for me. Do you have any idea what the episode is titled?</p>

<p>

You may address me as “Your Eminence.”</p>

<p>BassDad, good point.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Your request, etc. <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert&lt;/a&gt;!&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Thank you for the link WashDad. Now I’m just waiting for my son to get home.</p>

<p>TheDad,</p>

<p>"You may address me as “Your Eminence.”</p>

<p>I prefer “Your Flatulence” instead… ;)</p>

<p>And I think your data is bogus, too:</p>

<p>Mileage: Hummer 3: 15/19 ES 350: 21/30
source: Consumer Reports…should be Federal data same as everywhere</p>

<p>My D observed just today, while wending her way around road hogs, that SUV drivers have Napoleon complexes.</p>

<p>Mileage: Hummer 3: 15/19, ES 350: 21/30 , Prius: EPA combined 55</p>

<p>ES350 30 - Hummer3 19 = 11mpg difference
Prius 55 - ES350 30 = 25mpg difference</p>

<p>Using the logic of mpg guilt, one should feel twice as guilty purchasing an ES350 over a Prius as one who purchases a Hummer3 over an ES350.</p>