<p>I was overmedicated, so yes, I was hyper.</p>
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<p>You could be right and maybe my good results are just psycological, but when it comes to thyroid issues, I’m sticking with whatever works.</p>
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<p>I took my older D to a really fabulous endo. When he was explaining thyroid function to her, I certainly was learing a lot. He said that the thyroid hormone affects every cell in the body, so just about any symptom could be thyroid related.</p>
<p>Yes, I’ve heard the same…that the thyroid is kind of like the engine that runs the body, so it affects everything. Annoying that even when the levels are good, some symptoms persist, from hair loss to mood issues. Time to try the gluten free and some other stuff. I’m tired of feeling icky!</p>
<p>One final post about gluten free foods before I stop hijacking this thread. There are three gluten free products that my family likes just as much as, or more than, the gluten filled alternatives:</p>
<p>Back to Nature crackers (snack crackers)</p>
<p>Heartland pasta</p>
<p>Betty Crocker brownie mix</p>
<p>All are available at WalMart. </p>
<p>You probably know that many of the Chex cereals are now gluten free.</p>
<p>I haven’t found a bread yet that is decent…which is actually just as well. I’m not a big sandwich eater. I used to serve a lot of crescent rolls and french bread wtih meals, but our lives are just as complete without them.</p>
<p>Thanks, great list!</p>
<p>Re/ knee pain - this is def. one of DH’s symptoms. Before he was diagnosed he was considering knee surgery but after proper med’s all pain went away. Recently he had a change in med’s and felt worse and the knee pain resurfaced; going back to tried and true med’s the pain receded. Seems pretty clear.</p>
<p>Hmm. Were there any weight changes with the changes in meds? If not, this is really interesting.</p>
<p>No weight change. He did notice more fuzzy thinking. So did I - I was so frustrated that he used the whole new script instead of going immediately back to the old. I could see the change in his thinking and it was unpleasant; he was not “with it” and the memory of the year before his diagnosis was extremely unpleasant. I noticed the change immediately when he started the old med’s again. And adding T3 to his mix (way back) made a huge difference. Synthroid alone (there are various brands and that’s what he was trying a new version of) was never good enough. It was better - life saving - but adding T3 helped dramatically. But this current medicine shuffle was a different type of synthroid and sorry I don’t know the details of which kind. Can find out if you like.</p>
<p>Yes, adding T3 (via cytomel) is the only thing that has ever worked for me, too.</p>
<p>Also, the generic form of cytomel did not work for me. I had a bit of a relapse, and I could not figure out why. Turns out the pharmacist had given me a refill using the generic. Now I make sure that does not happen.</p>
<p>I am now using Tirosint (made by Swiss co) now for my T4- it is a gel pill in a blister pocket- more readily absorbed, no fillers, not as much back-up to the gall bladder, etc. This change has been fine for me.</p>
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<p>Can you clarify this please? I’m curious.</p>
<p>Hugcheck, Hope you don’t mind an important correction. Generic of T4 is levothyroxine. Synthroid, like levoxyl is a specific brand name.</p>
<p>Teri,
What I am saying is that my endo “prefers” to shut the thyroid gland down completely with a high enough dose, rather than ADD/SUPPLEMENT to what he can only guess the gland is producing, which probably varies a lot, asp if it is diseased or inflamed. This gives us more “control” over what amt of thyroid hormone we are actually getting. Fillers and formulae can also affect the dosing, as well.</p>
<p>Around 80/day is the “average” to shut down the gland, he has found. He has also found that a dose around your weight is often close to what you need: a 150lb person often needs 150 thyroxine. These are very rough guidelines, but give a good baseline to work with.
He feels that dosing this way gives more CONTROL, keeping the gland quiet, and allowing us to give a steady does from the outside.</p>
<p>The TSH numbers stop meaning much when on a regimen like this, he has found.
On a program like this, you find the T$ and related numbers in your blood that make YOU fells better, and can control them with your meds; the changes are what then matter.</p>
<p>You can always go off the thyroid meds- the thyroid meds do not PERMANENTLY shut down the gland. (But disease and inflammation of the gland will.) </p>
<p>Also, some people I know have had TEMPORARY needs for thyroid meds. Endo concurs that hormonal transitions, like puberty, pregnancy, post-partum, menopause, and I assume sever stress/disease, can set off changes that thyroid supp can help with. But once the transition has been made some can go off the thyroid meds, as long as the gland is healthy.</p>
<p>Teri,
Please PM me if you would like endo’s name and contact info. Many do travel to see him and his partner. I am not specifically endorsing him, but you may find it useful to connect with him.\\</p>
<p>On another note, there is a whole school of thought (alternative medicine) that a chronically out of whack thyroid can cause severe ADRENAL stress. I suspect that you should look into this, also Teri, given your history. Hyper symptoms and adrenal stress feel very similar. Adrenal gland will over-produce cortisol for a good period, which feels pretty lousy in an amped up way; then they shut down completely, which feels like depression.
I am unfamiliar with the whole drx- treatment process exactly, but know that cortisol is hard to measure as it changes constantly. There are easy to measure it in your saliva, taking readings over a long period at the same times every day to see what is happening. </p>
<p>If I have a link to adrenal issues, I will post it here, as there is an important relationship between the thyroid and adrenal glands.
My understanding is that sugar and insulin have a connection to the adrenals, as well.</p>
<p>I am very aware of adrenal fatigue issues, and did have cortisol measure both via blood work and saliva tests (an AM and PM sample). My cortisol came back normal both times, and these were both done during my hyper crisis.</p>
<p>I guess what I’m trying to understand with your language is, at 100mcg/day of levoxyl, which we found was too high for me when I began to take it properly, meaning more of it was bioavailable and it was too much, then I was switched to 88mcg/day of levoxyl before it was stopped by the internist. But when he switched me to 88mcg/day, he told me to take it six out of seven days a week. I was actually talking to a friend of mine a couple of days ago whose endocrinologist has her on 88 mcg M-F, and none on Sa-Su.</p>
<p>I do believe my endo is very capable of managing all of this; he on the faculty of Northwestern’s Feinberg School of Medicine and comes very highly respected. He definitely believes in treating symptoms as opposed to numbers, and used the word micromanaging several times. Again, he also offered to be my primary care physician, but his office is an hour away (with no traffic), which is why I chose a different internist. And my gyne spoke to both my internist and endo about the bio-identical hormones and they are on board with it, but I don’t want to start making too many changes at once (the uncontrolled experiment). So as of right now, I’m just trying to taper off of some of the psychiatric drugs they put me on before they found out I was hyper, so I’m reluctant to start messing with my levoxyl or bio-identical hormones. But since I know my TSH was climbing up without any levoxyl, I suspect that controlled experiment has failed and I will need some. I’m wondering if the endo still believes in the 88mcg., 6/7 days a week, which will average out to .75mcg./day over a week’s period.</p>
<p>So where am I still needing clarification of what your endo recommends? How what my endo recommended with the 88mcg., 6/7 days a week fall into line with what your endo suggests?</p>
<p>Roshke thank you for the correction. I have synthroid in mind as synthetic thyroid (as opposed to armour which is pig thyroid). Easiest name to remember, kind of like tampax for tampons or kleenex for tissues. Tirosint is the newer med that did not work well for DH and levoxyl which is cheaper is the one that works best for him. It is remarkable looking in from outside him how much better he seems on the med that works best for him. Each person is different so we both value and appreciate his doc’s interest in having him try new versions as they become available. </p>
<p>DH’s exerience was interesting - in the beginning the doc told him not to worry if he missed a day but DH felt AWFUL if he did miss a day. After a few years of medication, DH can now miss a day and feel no effect. Does this mean each cell has a reserve of the hormone? Does this mean other endocrine systems are healing and functioning more effectively? No clue. But it has been an interesting change over the years. I guess I bring this up because at the beginning of his treatment, had DH gone 5 days with med’s and 2 without them he would have felt very impaired. Now that he has been on medication for many years such a regime would affect him differently. He does take his med’s every day an hour before eating and that’s what works best for him. I don’t quite understand why a doc would prescribe a few days on and a few days off; perhaps to tinker with the dosage in a way that provides a non standard dosage over time. I might consider having a pharmacist compound a prescription specially if I needed a non standard dosage after tinkering and getting clear on whatever the right dose would be for my system. The endo could probably recommend a good pharmacist if one wanted to do this. (DH’s doc has a pharmacist he recommends for this purpose.)</p>
<p>I have never heard of skipping thyroid meds for 1 or 2 days a week!
I suspect my endo is more in the “steady doses are best” camp, so this is a fascinating option to me. The closest he would never get to this is to take a dose every other day… Still much more steady and regular than skipping two days a week. What was your doc’s thinking about this?? I am curious.</p>
<p>On AVERAGE, an 88lb person would need 88mcg, and he would suspect that is, at this point, usually 100% from the outside. I have never asked him specifics about those who need less and why that would occur…</p>
<p>I figure, using common sense, that if a person’s gland is producing less than usual, then it would take less to shut it down.</p>
<p>Another thing is that, for the shut-down regimen, a person WILL experience the HYPER symptoms for a short time, as the outside thyroxine overloads the gland. In theory, that will shut the gland down, and the hyper symptoms will moderate.</p>
<p>Now, I suspect that some never attain that, and have to remove the gland surgically. Some also do the radioactive treatment to kill the gland. My endo reserves these for the times that the overdosing does not resolve. I am not in the know about much of that, why it happens, etc. as my own gland did respond nicely and within a week or two to a slight overdose. I also take cytomel, which does provide a touch of T4 as well with the T3- THIS has been the crucial aspect of my treatment!</p>
<p>One D has been on anti-depressant, and, because it was ineffective, weaned off: endo says this type of drug definitely changes the readings for a while. But, immediately after weaning form the anti-d, he added T3 via cytomel to help moderate the depression. He had also seen in her numbers that her T4 was higher than her T3, showing a poor conversion rate (therapist independently set up the anti-d-- endo would not have done that, just gone straight to adding cytomel… oh well, another failed experiment, this is such an art…)</p>
<p>With other D, her estrogen fell into the zero zone. Endo is resisting adding estrogen, and put her on metformin for a bit. Helped her feel better, but estrogen is still too low. She is now doing acupuncture to get the female hormones going because putting her on BCP or HRT would not allow the ovaries to wake up. If her ovaries never do wake up, she will have to take estrogen, but we are trying to get her body to make the estrogen by itself still.</p>
<p>I understand that adding estrogen can make some women feel fabulous, but not so for others. I so hope that you get a good boost from the HRT.
It may take time for the effects of the psychotropic drugs to wear off and let the other stuff really do their work.
I feel that psychotropic meds are a much bigger “commitment” that we are told before we start on them, unfortunately. Hve you considered T3 via cytomel?</p>
<p>I concur that if you’re on thyroid med’s but still struggling ADD CYTOMEL (T3). Without the t3 DH had to have T4 so suppressed (to feel at all well) that his doc refused to provide a prescription for that dosage. Adding T3 allowed him to feel well while his t4 numbers came “into range.” Thank heaven.</p>
<p>As promised, here is a site all about ADRENAL FATIGUE.
[What</a> is Adrenal Fatigue?](<a href=“http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/what-is-adrenal-fatigue]What”>http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/what-is-adrenal-fatigue)
YMMV, I cannot vouch for this, and have no personal experience handling it (though I am pretty sure I suffer from it). It rings true to me, and I know some who have benefited enormously from this type of help, so I thought I would share.
Good luck, all.</p>
<p>OK, and now for the weirdest post yet: a summary of how a vet researched dogs and cats with hormonal issues, looking for links between thyroid, cortisol, other hormones and neuro-transmitters, with an interest in humans as well, while also looking at the immune system and allergies.
His take is that we may benefit from use of corticosteroids to help with some of these issues.</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://drplechner.com/article_effective_vet.php]Effective”>Dr. Al Plechner's Biography]Effective</a> Veterinary Model | Dr. Alfred J. Plechner, DVM<a href=“I%20have%20a%20breed%20of%20dog%20that%20has%20rampant%20thyroid%20issues,%20so%20I%20have%20to%20keep%20up%20on%20the%20latest%20research…”>/url</a></p>
<p>Please be aware that adrenal insufficiency is a real medical condition, while adrenal fatigue is a diagnosis that is currently unproven and unrecognized within the medical community. IMO this is within the realm of those looking to make a quick buck off of unproven theories, well marketed books and potentially dangerous and unregulated supplements:</p>
<p>[Mayo</a> Clinic - Adrenal Fatigue? See a Doctor](<a href=“http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2010-mchi/5699.html]Mayo”>http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2010-mchi/5699.html)</p>
<p>roshke,
I am assuming you did not mean your post to deprecate me.</p>
<p>As you can see, I passed these ideas along with an admitted and open lack of confidence.
So why did I pass them on?
Because I do know people who have done well with these types of regimens.
And, importantly, I also believe that conventional medicine does NOT have all the answers, and that some of these “quackeries” an be the leading edge to the next great treatments and knowledge.</p>
<p>Sure there are plenty of quacks and “hippocratic hyopcrites” out there!
Caveat emptor, OF COURSE, to everyone who read my last two posts.
Avoid anything but mainstream medicine if you want to get the tried and true, including all the warts and inadequacies there.
However, alternative/integrative medicine is also the place where some discoveries are being made.
The problem with moving into these more alternative methods IMO is that is really is hard for the average citizen to distill the grains of truth from non-traditional programs, so that is a real concern to me.
But where to go when the traditional is just not working??</p>
<p>In point of fact, I have noticed a huge array of practice methods among equally well-respected traditional doctors, as well.</p>
<p>p.s. I am far from an apostle of his, but I have noticed that a good number of the things that Dr Weil has recommended over the years are now accepted by mainstream medicine.</p>