To (All) the Colleges That Rejected Me

<p>This:

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<p>I agree.</p>

<p>It’s not rocket science or some complicated formula. Some people are making this far too much a mystery. I will say, though, in fairness, that most adolescents need some guidance from adults in this department, only because few of them are mature enough (naturally!) to project the adult perspective, and because they tend to be focused more on their emotions. That needed guidance is normal. I mostly hear, ‘I’m not sure what they’re looking for from me.’</p>

<p>The adult thing is to respond by giving them some broad parameters. It’s not “magic.”</p>

<p>However, alarm bells will ring in the admissions office if the student, despite guidance, reading the website, and reflecting, can’t do better than 'Your University will make me rich," or, “My parents have always wanted me to go here.” Again, the biggest problem is when the student is unable to articulate a single, persuasive academic reason for attending despite all the guidance in the world. In 100% of those cases, student is applying because parent is directing, and student is too scared to oppose parent. Student doesn’t own the process or the decision.</p>

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<p>(quoting self)
I meant in 100% of the cases I’ve seen. YMMV !</p>

<p>Personally, I would never advise a student to show the essay to teachers or GCs. They are great professionals but do not understand what these big schools are looking for. Most students may not have a choice since they don’t have others who can provide them with the appropriate feedback.</p>

<p>A caution for those who say my kid wrote such an essay and got in (whatever it might be) - It is quite possible one may get into an elite school DESPITE their essay. Xiggi posted an example of a Stanford MBA admittee whose essay sounded terrible but got in and people started mimicking the style assuming that’s what gets them in. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/15548859-post751.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/15548859-post751.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>@vici
Actual stats? Holy crap. Same as mine (almost) and I was rejected from the same schools save Vandy where I was waitlisted…</p>

<p>Our EC’s are probably different, though. No money or connections for those opportunities. :D</p>

<p>In everyday interactions with members of society, a student will adjust behavior and speech according to perceived expectations. He won’t swear in the classroom, he may decide to use higher level vocabulary in English class than in phys ed, he’ll know not to tell the teacher the real reason he wants to go to the restroom is to make a cell phone call, and he’ll convince mom to let him go to a party by offering a reassurance he knows will relax her. All students have some access to various means to determine what has to be done in each class and for each individual teacher to succeed. Outside of school, they may have mom and dad or some other mentor who can clue them in that they shouldn’t mention such and such to Aunt Emma or that supervisor. </p>

<p>The problem is that for college apps., they’re writing for strangers whose expectations and opinions they have no clue about. Should they write about their part-time job if it’s research, but not if they’re a cashier at the supermarket? Some adults will tell them the supermarket job is unimpressive, while others will assert talking about it could indicate the Ivy-bound student isn’t too full of himself to work at a menial job and still learn something there. Remember the CC lifeguard discussion? Some adult posters thought it was a great job for a teen–certainly better than flipping burgers–which would reveal a high level of student responsibility. Others argued that this is not a job viewed positively by adcoms since it is seen as a lightweight job of privilege–I suppose along the lines of hanging out at the country club dad belongs to under the guise of working. Educated adults can’t agree on these things, so where to turn? </p>

<p>Students are told to make sure their own voice comes through, and to be careful not to over-edit their essays such that their own voice is lost. Yet they’re supposed to have an adult read it to make sure they haven’t, due to their inexperience, broken a cardinal rule of what not to say in an admissions essay and that they don’t sound too much like the young, immature and directionless kids they are. Also, they must ask the right teachers to write their recommendations letters–not Sister Mary who will likely comment on the fact that the applicant shows up with a neat and clean uniform every day. </p>

<p>This discussion should not be trivialized as stemming from sour grapes or entitled whining. Everyone whose own child was successful believes it was deserved, and although they won’t admit it, many tend to assume there had to have been a good reason that other student didn’t get in, ie. their essays were inferior. (Btw, for the newcomers to this thread, my own two kids did well in admissions and attended an Ivy and Stanford. So I suppose they did something right, if only by accident.) </p>

<p>Why is there so much reaction to this topic? Because a lot of people suspect that it isn’t always the content of their character that got them in the coveted school, but the “character of their content.” The concern is that the right “content” is unfairly easier for certain groups of people to achieve than others, such as the sort of kid who goes to a top school where there are no Sister Mary types of teachers to even worry about and where a xiggi is their GC or consultant. People understand there isn’t a set formula for elite admissions and can’t be, but they suspect there are some secret rules out there and desired “contents” that certain privileged groups have access to that they don’t. They also suspect that certain classes of applicants, like recruited athletes, could work as a lifeguard and write an essay about liking the college’s weather and architecture and it wouldn’t matter one whit, but it would be fatal for anyone else.</p>

<p>TheGFG, I really appreciate your contributions to this thread.</p>

<p>Thanks! I have 4 more years before my youngest will be applying, but I feel awful about the confusion and anxiety I’m observing among friends who are in the midst of it now. These are bright, well-educated people who shouldn’t be clueless about college admissions, and yet who feel as though they don’t understand the game.</p>

<p>One woman–an engineer with a masters in counseling–and her Wharton MBA husband are arguing over the appropriate EC’s for their daughter. Mom wants her to keep her retail job for several reasons, one of which is D needs to overcome some shyness around strangers. Meanwhile, Dad is worried that that sort of job is not of the caliber typically seen among successful elite school applicants, and he’d like her to have a shot at an Ivy and have the same sort of opportunities he’s had. (And yes, they both know D won’t die or necessarily end up unemployed if she goes to a lower ranked school). </p>

<p>I can’t help but think admissions shouldn’t have to strategized to the degree such that a family discussion of that nature should be happening. But yet these sorts of discussions are indeed occurring in many households. If they weren’t, this thread wouldn’t exist. And if it’s true elite admission does not require such detailed planning and strategizing, and it’s OK to relax and “be yourself”, then that fact needs to be made clearer because even well-educated parents don’t know what’s what.</p>

<p>I nominate post #605 by TheGFG as an Instant CC Classic. </p>

<p>The disagreement among adults about how certain ECs or jobs will come across is very real. A student is writing for admissions committee members that the student has probably never met. In addition to the points raised by TheGFG, for me at least, this raises an issue: How much self-revelation is the applicant willing to put out there, to be read by someone he/she has never met?</p>

<p>GFG 605 very good thought.
lookingforward. Thanks for providing perspective from the other side. You are very reasonable, not condescending, unlike some other individual on this thread.</p>

<p>"broken a cardinal rule of what not to say in an admissions essay "</p>

<p>I read essays now and then from kids and I do find most kids write good essays but say something that sounds wrong. An example would be an essay about doing service for a children’s charity where the children are non-communicative types and don’t express their feelings. Would it be wrong to say I have done it, I am their hero and I sure they are thanking me for it even if they don’t say it? Should service be done expecting thanks?</p>

<p>“Mom wants her to keep her retail job for several reasons”</p>

<p>D worked at a doctor’s office part time one summer, survived and wrote essays about it. She could have gone back throughout high school but she decided one summer was enough because there were other things needed to be done. I agree with both the mom and dad. She needs the retail experience but she needs to move on after trying for a while. If we frame it in the opportunities one has perspective, some kid might really need that job to support herself and may not have a choice while this kid has affluent parents who can give her lot leeway in pursuing things that interest her. Once you have proven that you can hold down a job you can move on to explore new areas.</p>

<p>This whole thing is a made-up problem. Worrying about how certain ECs or jobs will “come across”? Do you realize how, for most of the world, even thinking that way is a total luxury? Most people–kids and adults–do what they love to do or have to do and that’s that. And the people who are making a difference in the world are doing so whether they have an elite degree or not.</p>

<p>I am really struck all of a sudden by how disingenuous this entire conversation is. Read the “Why do you want to go to an Ivy League?” thread if you want the honest reason most kids care about the “status” of their school. IT’S MONEY. (Of course, they can’t put this in their “Why X?” essays, which is why they struggle with the question.) They think admission to an elite school will be the golden ticket to financial prosperity and, thus, happiness. Same goes for the parents who insist their kids will make “better” connections at a Harvard or Duke than they would at University of Illinois or Rollins College. When you really look at it, most of this faux concern about where their most special snowflakes end up is about believing that certain institutions offer the most promising path toward acquiring wealth, not to change the world or find personal fulfillment doing something they love (even if that is running a doggie day care or teaching eighth-grade English).</p>

<p>Sorry to rant but I’ve sort of had it with this subject.</p>

<p>There’s s lot of good in these last posts, GFG (and others.) Folks, the problem is that this discussion is bigger than we can put into crisp posts. Usually these talks only get as far as "figure it out " and “your own voice.” Savor the moment because it may quickly revert to “those darned colleges won’t tell us…”</p>

<p>No, kids don’t know. They hone their skills at thesis statement essays and when they occasionally get to write something revealing, it’s for a teacher who knows them, can like the effort behind unpolished wit or forgive blunders. (I know Johnny didn’t mean that.) Adcoms are strangers. </p>

<p>I think Epiphany noted they’re at an emotional stage where I want or I like seems crucial. Not all can think strategically. Nor can parents. </p>

<p>To me, it all seems simple. I know how to do it and how to spot it. I know how many kids don’t get it and trip themselves. But how do we explain it, in posts, to share it? More to follow.</p>

<p>“not to change the world or find personal fulfillment doing something they love (even if that is running a doggie day care or teaching eighth-grade English).”</p>

<p>Ah, but sally-you CAN change the world “just” being an 8th grade teacher. Think of all the minds you can can mold, or the kids you can inspire, and depending on where you’re teaching, you can even save lives. And that’s why all this nuttiness about ivy-or-bust is so ridiculous. </p>

<p>While I suppose that for some people the only success is getting into an ivy, studying engineering and getting a huge salary at an internationally known Big Company, to me, it’s even MORE of a success when a troubled kid learns how to handle her anger thanks to a dedicated teacher. Or a kid learns to love reading instead of hating school, or a struggling kid gets a better grip on English.</p>

<p>The beauty of it is that you can do this without paying thousands for trips to Africa or specialized camps to get your resume going on the way to such a career. You can just go down the street to the community center and volunteer. And the help you provide is REAL.</p>

<p>So I don’t have lots of sympathy for the writer in the OP, and I don’t think the article was funny. Sure, she’ll go on to be “successful”. But so will my kid, who will be “just” a teacher, and so will my boss, who is “just” a pastor from a no-name college. And so will my SIL, who is “just” a medical assistant. And so on.</p>

<p>Someone I am very close with is a distinguished alum of a tippy-top college and a major donor. Son has 2400 SAT scores and wrote an excellent essay. Kid is a B-B+ student with zero (zero) ECs, no job, no clubs, no sports, no music, no volunteering. Also something of a non-entity in the high school due to being a lazy slacker dude. Both father and son wanted the son (last admission cycle) to attend Dad’s school. Being a household name in his field and a major donor, they got a dinner with the president in the fall and private tour and all sorts of handholding. Admissions decisions came out and they were pretty confident in top choice and had applied to other similar schools.</p>

<p>Guess what? He didn’t get in. Not even a waitlist. Dad will never donate or deal with the school again. I was very, very surprised as was the family. Kid ended up in a good school, but not what they expected. </p>

<p>as you may imagine, they are very angry and bitter. The reason they believe their kid wasn’t accepted? Because varsity athletes get all the breaks. </p>

<p>wrap your brain around that one.</p>

<p>FWIW, when we toured at Duke last year, they took great pride in noting that the two largest employers of their recent graduates were Goldman Sachs and Teach for America. Not everyone is there as a prestige whore.</p>

<p>Agree, sseamom. I should have said “and/or.”</p>

<p>sseamom - I think there are plenty of people like your daughter/pastor/SIL who went to Ivies. People choose a career based on what interests them, not based on what schools they attend.</p>

<p>FWIW - I have met several Ivy educated teachers teaching in inner city schools in Houston.</p>

<p>Sally-I knew what you meant. What I said was more for the people who really don’t believe anything but ibanking, med school or engineering is worthwhile. You know who they are. </p>

<p>And, texas, that is my point. You do not NEED to “go ivy” to teach, or minister, or help the sick or the needy or even, in the case of my state, be a local, regional or statewide leader or lawmaker. And that’s a good thing in my book.</p>

<p>“FWIW, when we toured at Duke last year, they took great pride in noting that the two largest employers of their recent graduates were Goldman Sachs and Teach for America. Not everyone is there as a prestige whore.”</p>

<p>Teach for America actually has become a very prestigious career path for new college graduates, with a significant majority of its recent recruits from the Ivies and other elite colleges. The difficulty has been the retention issue beyond 2-3 years.</p>

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<p>How much people earn (without resorting to fraud) is correlated with how much value they produce for others, so I approve of people following the money. But if the PayScale numbers I have cited earlier are realistic, the pay boost for attending an Ivy is unimpressive.</p>