<p>Teach for America has lots of graduates in it who are there because they haven’t yet found jobs in their fields. And the reason the retention isn’t great is because they either leave after finding lucrative jobs or because they are not good teachers. My best friend, a professor in the Ed department of a large private university, is not overly impressed with her TfA proteges.</p>
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<p>One of my children wrote an essay on a very high-risk topic - a topic that if I brought it up, you’d all say - oh, god, no, don’t let on about that. However, it was a calculated decision to do so, because it brought forth her best writing, her best emotion, and made her come across as a real person who had some thoughtful things to say.</p>
<p>GFG’s other point, though, is well-taken - I DO think a lot of well-meaning parents would say things like “don’t tell them about your job at the supermarket, it’s not impressive, they only want to hear if you were doing research in a lab.” </p>
<p>And I DO think there is some sophistication of “insider” thinking that can be found (often, but not always) in upper middle class and / or well educated parents that can help keep the student on the right path.
The discussion of “what to put in the why us essay” is a perfect example.
When my S decided to apply to our alma mater and had to write the “why NU” essay, he already had attended summer programs on the campus, he had been there for football games and reunions and the like – he could articulate specific things he liked about the campus in a way that most kids couldn’t. OK. </p>
<p>So what did he do with this? His first draft was along the lines of “I’ve attended lectures in XX Hall and in YY Hall. I’ve sat on the lakefront on a summer day and talked with my buddies. .” Etc. Basically giving a travelogue of all the spots he liked on campus. Coupled with a lot of “I love Chicago, it’s my hometown,” blah blah blah. </p>
<p>I saw that and to be honest, I kind of hit the roof. To me, it was as self-evident as the nose on my face that NU wasn’t REALLY looking for an applicant to tell them about all the halls and landmarks on campus that they ALREADY KNOW ABOUT. Or to tell them that they liked their proximity to a big city or whatever. Because why do they care that you like the look of the campus? To me, it was completely self-evident that the purpose of the essay was to demonstrate what the student has observed about the school and what it was about the student’s outlook on life that would make the student a valuable contributor or addition to the campus. And all the “look, I’ve sat in XX Hall and eaten lunch on the lakefront” doesn’t add one whit to that story.</p>
<p>But - I’m a reasonably intelligent, well-educated person. I have that kind of insight. I’m very willing to bet a lot of very smart people DO think the question is about the flat “why do you like College X” and don’t see anything wrong with the kid saying - I like your buildilngs, your weather, your access to a lake. And I agree that the distribution of that insight isn’t “fair” in that not all kids have access to it, but I don’t know how to correct for that.</p>
<p>Well, I guess you could try being everyone’s mom.</p>
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<p>Teach for America is prestigious in its own way - especially among kids who were full- pay and thus have a “cushion” to live on for a while while they slum it in the inner cities. It’s got some hipster chic to it.</p>
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<p>Then Dad - even with his fancy Wharton MBA - isn’t very observant about human nature. Which is no crime, of course – but it means that despite his financial / educational / economic “success,” there’s an element of insight and thought that has eluded him.</p>
<p>zoosermom, why are you surprised?</p>
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<p>I have a hard time sorting out “tone” online. A student who asked for advice on CC with high test scores, but nothing else, would not be assured he would be a shoo-in for a tippy-top college.</p>
<p>What was he doing with the time he did not spend on ECs, jobs, clubs, sports, music, volunteering? He wasn’t devoting it all to homework, with a B-B+ average.</p>
<p>TFA salaries depend on location, no?</p>
<p>The sitting by the lake can be fine. When poetgrl noted maturity, self knowledge and insights (and there are other buzzwords,) those are qualities that can come through in a variety of approaches. But I know what you mean, PG.</p>
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<p>Completely disagree. The caregiver who cares for my MIL with Alzheimer’s produces lots of value, even if she doesn’t make what a hedge fund manager makes. And while I don’t begrudge a pro athlete or rap star what he makes – hey, if the market will pay it, so be it – it’s not really of value in the way other things are.</p>
<p>It’s almost as though you don’t know how to conceptualize or deal with things unless you have scorecards of SAT scores to measure intelligence and money to measure value, Beliavsky. Please tell me there is more to you than those scorecards.</p>
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<p>You are correct, but perhaps not in the way you intended. In the eyes of many, TFA carries enormous prestige. Goldman Sachs has been a mixed bag since the last financial crisis. Lots of money but lackluster reputation versus a little bit versus lots of kudos. Either way, prestige is not without its cost. And in between, you have lots of unpaid or low pay “internships” that target the same income bracket scions. </p>
<p>You should, however, not be fooled. Ultimately, whoever makes the effort to attend (and pay for) a highly prestigious school expects a reasonable ROI. Goldman Sachs and TFA are simply different paths that are expected to lead to the top of the same mountain. Those seemingly different paths were created by the economic circumstances of the past 5-6 years.</p>
<p>Just because certain types of careers command a good salary, does not mean students enter that career just for the money. Some students have a good head for numbers and business, so a banking career suits them. Period. Regardless, we live in a capitalist society that thrives on profit motive. A person who is motivated by money is not necessarily corrupt, any more than every teacher is a compassionate altruist or every pastor is a selfless, holy man. Those who chose service professions aren’t more noble; they are simply incentivized by different things. It’s wrong and harmful to assign greater moral value to some jobs over others. We need all kinds to run the world, and the investment banker’s tithe could be a nice contribution toward the pastor’s salary.</p>
<p>Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with desiring excellence. If I want to be the best engineer or doctor or philosopher I can be, one step toward that admirable goal is to attend a school with a strong department in the relevant majors. In most cases, the local community college would not fit the bill. And why should only the students aspiring to top schools have to justify why they want to attend such a school? Maybe we should ask the directional state school kids to justify why they wish to attend a less challenging school where they’ll have more time to play video games and get drunk. </p>
<p>And on the topic of money, I find it’s often the affluent who have the luxury of disdaining the desire for a good salary. Talk about first world thinking–it’s that money doesn’t matter. Tell that to my parents who don’t have a pot a pee in in their old age, or to me who grew up in their house, or to my husband who lived among abject poverty in his home country. It is the American dream to do better than your parents. Why are some of you acting as though desiring social mobility through elite education is an evil?</p>
<p>But in the same vein as admit talk, just TFA is no guarantee. There has to be a pattern of strengths. Etc.</p>
<p>Btw. Buzz among D1’s friends is about issues with TFA - ?</p>
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<p>Not one thing wrong with SES mobility, particularly upward. ;)</p>
<p>I think what some of us know is that there are a multitude of paths to financial and personal success in life. However, it is also true that the studies have indicated that the group who derives THE most benefit from attending an elite U is the lower SES group. </p>
<p>In fact, all things being equal, the lower SES student will derive significant benefit from attendance at the “most selective” US universities, whereas the upper middle class kids end up doing pretty much the same regardless of school.</p>
<p>This is possibly because in the end it really is “who you know,” and the who you know of elite education is most beneficial, economically, for those who do not “know” anyone. However, it is important, then, too, for these institutions to continue to admit legacies, athletes and developmental candidates in order to continue to offer these networks.</p>
<p>So, Joe average upper middle class kid is a bit out of the loop, both in terms of benefit and in terms of desirability. Sad but true.</p>
<p>The good news is that the downward pressure on this has made many institutions which were once also rans into really great universities. Look at Vanderbilt. In a generation it has become a distinguished institution instead of the place the wealthy kids went when they couldn’t get into X,Y,Z.</p>
<p>Carry on.</p>
<p>Regarding the essays, I believe it is important to note that there are some types of essays that present great challenges for the typical 16 to 18 years old. Those are the essays that require a healthy dose of introspection. Most teenagers have the ability to write pretty good descriptive or observational essays. On the other hand, and perhaps due to years of being told they should not write in the “I” form, they struggle between being too self-deprecating or too impressed with their own self. Most decide to play the safe card.</p>
<p>The Why XYZ seems to be a particular tricky one because the subject is given directly. The student has to write about XYZ, or better stated about how the equation ? = student + XYZ. In the same vein, the “Write a note to your roommate” at Stanford sends shivers through the spine of most of the 38,000 applicants. </p>
<p>Lastly, the problem is that conversations like this tend to try to generalize and normalize a process that is totally INDIVIDUAL. The examples of my own family are hardly useful to Pizzagirl’s kids. And vice versa. Essays, in particular, should be highly individualized and … memorable. Over the years, I have often used the sentence “Present a small slice of your life” to help friends and family keep it simple and real. Or write something that only you could write, and this fully knowing that there are a couple of millions kids trying to do just the same thing!</p>
<p>No, GFG, a lot of people choose high-paying careers for other reasons that money. But just as social mobility and elite educations are not “evil”, neither do many students choose large directional U’s or “third” or “fourth” tier schools just to party and have easy classes.</p>
<p>The real answer is that there are many options, not JUST ivies and not JUST 6-figure salaries to make people happy and make the world go round. It’s the ivy and prestige uber alles that gets really old.</p>
<p>Yeah, but let’s be honest. If it were not for the Ivy League and a couple of the highly sought-after schools to adulate, bash, or secretly envy, we would not have much of a … forum! </p>
<p>The focus on the “Ivies” does indeed get old, especially when considering how small a portion of the highered landscape it truly is. But then, look at the next discussions with terms such Public Ivies. In a way, everything gets tossed back in that direction. </p>
<p>The Dutch say, “The taller trees get the most wind” and that seems to apply to the Ivy League schools. It is quite natural.</p>
<p>A lot of us use “ivies” as a stand in for top 25. Though some people really do mean Ivies…</p>
<p>Actually, some people really only mean HYPSM, two of which are not even in the Ivies. :p</p>
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<p>No one thinks desiring social mobility through elite education (or any education for that matter) is evil. But you’re not getting what we’re talking about.</p>
<p>Is it good to want to be able to make a healthy living, perhaps help support parents who gave all for you, have at least some of the trappings of success (nice house, car, vacations), and (ultimately) be able to educate your own children well? Of course. That is the American dream!</p>
<p>The problem that some of us object to is that there seems to be a lack of understanding that it is not even <em>remotely</em> necessary to engage in i-banking/hedge fund management/mgt consulting to come up with QUITE a nice comfortable upper middle class that helps you get to those places. No, it’s not private-jet land, but sheesh, upper middle class America is probably a nicer standard of living than 90% of the world. </p>
<p>And anyone with any common sense and two eyes and ears can figure out that there are a myriad of opportunities to get to that end game, and it’s not just “hedge funds and i-banking and management consulting.” Unless you’re not very bright or not very observant about the world, which are not good characteristics to have.</p>
<p>a brief comment on “why this college” essay. My son wrote a very brief, up to the point “Why UChicago” essay, basically in these lines, “Here is what I’m interested in and what I would like to become. I googled colleges with best programs in XXXX. UChicago came as one of the best. In addition, UChicago has “this” and “this”. Because I want to continue doing “this” and “this” while in college, UChicago is a very good fit for me”. It was better written of course and had more specific details, including discussion of the Common Core. I doubt they were impressed with this essay, but it obviously didn’t hurt him, because he got in with flying colors despite a record admission rate this year (8% or so).</p>
<p>It’s true that upper middle class is makes more than 90% of the world, But the tax, tuition and housing they are paying is also more than 90% of the world. 200k/child tuition is still a burden for most upper middle class families.</p>
<p>^
yet, you paid lots of money to college counselors to increase the probability that your kids are admitted to top colleges. It’s your money of course. But why not let them attend a public school if it doesn’t matter?</p>