To Ivy, or not to Ivy

OP- a doctorate is not just “well I’m done with a master’s degree so the next step is a PhD”.

It will be a very deep dive into research- something you are passionately interested in pursuing, and for many people- very hard and not that much fun after the first year. You will soon transition out of the “learning for learning’s sake” phase of a doctoral program into the ‘You need to complete your research and finish your dissertation before your advisor asks “what the heck are you doing here anyway” phase.

All of which is to say- focus on getting your Bachelor’s degree right now. The world isn’t running out of history. Take it one step at a time. And while U Penn may sound fantastic and prestigious and all that- if and when you are ready to apply to a doctoral program, the universe may tell you that the right program for your interests is at U Maine or University of Illinois or Johns Hopkins or BU. If you’re interested in Imperial Russia, you need to find a program with scholars who study that- and are willing to take you on. And if your interest is in American Colonial history, you’ll want both a robust department/faculty, AND lots of opportunities for inter-disciplinary research– archaeology (every time someone digs a trench in downtown Philadelphia for cable wires, they pull up 18th century household goods, ephemera, etc.), literature, sociology, etc.

So first things first. Figure out with your transfer advisor what your options are now for getting a BA and kick the can down the road on everything else.

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Good question. It really depends on the program. Funding can take many forms: teaching assistantships, research and other assistantships (example: one my my “other” assistantships was an advising position in the Dean’s office that was funded just like a teaching assistantship, with a full tuition waiver plus a stipend and health care), fellowships, and grants funded by the department, plus outside fellowships that range from research travel grants to fully funded semesters for writing. Some programs accept students with guaranteed funding for however many years (usually 4-5), and in others you have to apply for funding but usually get it. The level of funding varies, though: full or partial tuition waivers, stipends of differing values, health care included or not. Often, once you’re ABD (“all but dissertation”), your tuition goes down significantly, because you’re just registered for a minimal dissertation credit each semester until you’re done. So even if your funding runs out and you have to take loans, they’ll be minimal.

So for however many years it takes, it’s generally possible to support yourself, but you’re not really paying off loans or accruing savings. For history Ph.D.s, it usually takes 5-8 years, and sometimes longer if you have more assistantships than fellowships (in other words, if funding comes with work expectations), or if life otherwise intervenes.

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This is what struck me as part of your equation.

You don’t even have a bachelors degree yet and you’re already thinking PhD? I’m glad you’ve thought ahead, but your wife also has some say in her life.

I had completed my Master’s thesis (research and results in language acquisition/speech path ) and my professors were grooming me for the PhD. The dissertation was almost a given.

It took me two years of research, and then I wrote up my thesis with several edits, suggested by committee members, and was going through the hurdles of presenting my findings. My professors really wanted me to stay at that university as a PhD. All I had to do was present my dissertation.
I was so close, but I was tired after 10 years of being broke, and I just wanted to earn some decent money to get a car (I had a bicycle with a large basket), get new furniture, eat a decent meal, etc. So I went out in the field, and thankfully, my discipline had jobs, left and right. I finally had money to go out to eat!

I have no regrets. So what? I didn’t earn my PhD, but I was still on everyone’s list as an expert in my area. I know I earned a lot more money being out in the field, and that was important to me. My professors were established, so they were earning a livable wage. I knew I couldn’t get close to that number as a new phD, but I wanted a house.

The point is you have a wife, who no doubt supports you, but your studies only support you. You don’t know how long it will take you to get through your Bachelors’, Masters’ and PhD.

I wasn’t married yet, but I was in a relationship. Earning a PhD is not linear. Things, like life, get in the way. If you are thinking that within the next two years, you’ll have your bachelors’, and then your Masters will come and then you’ll have your PhD. On paper, it may look that way. It doesn’t work that way. There are lots of hiccups in the process.

What if children arrive on the scene- how will you help support a wife and kids? What if in the process of your thesis studies, one of your committee is no longer available? Maybe they’ve been recruited by another university, or maybe, like in my case, one of them passes away? I had to restart certain sections of my research.

You’re making decisions now based on events that haven’t currently happened.

First, see if you can get into an undergrad school to earn your Bachelors. Take it one step at a time.

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I have not read the whole thread but many history programs require a second or third language. And not every program will have someone in your desired area - unsure if you have decided what you want to study. Hope you find a good undergrad program to help identify your next steps!

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Good point (these are grad programs that require languages, not usually undergrad programs). It’s a good idea to take at least one language in college. Grad programs will allow you to complete the requirements after you’re admitted, but it will delay the process. Usually 4 semesters of college-level language will satisfy the requirement, or you might be assessed on reading knowledge, because the point is that you need to be able to do research in other languages when necessary (for my French assessment, I had to translate a couple of pages from a book written in French, and I could use a dictionary; I satisfied the requirement in Spanish with course work).

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When I was ABD I was also what my university called a Teaching Fellow, and I was actually teaching my own courses (not assisting). I also was volunteering for overloads, meaning doing extra courses and summer courses.

For me it was a fun, albeit pretty low-paying, job. Thanks to sitting on a certain committee for a bit, I happen to know the low-paying part also made it a screaming good deal for the university, meaning they were making way more in the fees for the credits for the students I was teaching than they paid me, even including my by-then nominal tuition and health benefits (but there were no retirement benefits) in my total compensation.

Anyway, the truth is that the really significant cost to all this was opportunity cost–a college graduate that far out of college could be making a lot more than I was in most career tracks. But I wasn’t out of pocket, and my college loans were being deferred without accruing interest, so, it could be worse.

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