<p>dmd-
Your suggestion is funny, but I wouldnt have the nerve, and it would probably **** off her husband! And my husband is too diplomatic to do that.</p>
<p>Jym, reread this thread as if you are not the OP.</p>
<p>then, just give yourself the same advice you would give me or anyone else.</p>
<p>I sometimes struggle seeing things when they get close up, but I already know the answer. </p>
<p>For me, and this is just for me, I would simply see that I keep putting myself in a certain situation and stop putting myself in that situation. How that looks to you depends on a lot of different factors: how long you have been freinds, whether or not you value the freindship enough to continue on in this way, whether or not you are willing to be the one who says something, whether of not she is the type to be able to hear feedback without becoming hurt and embarrased and angry, etc… I can’t imagine a way to bring any of this up without extreme discomfort, personally. Is it worth that discomfort and the conmommittant fall out among all the other friends? I do not know in your case. Those are the questions I would ask myself.</p>
<p>Or, you could just move her into the acquaintance column and out of the “friend” column, which is less stressful, just in general.</p>
<p>mowc-
I think I typed/spelled it wrong-- its a blood pressure cuff. Sphygmomanometer.</p>
<p>jym, I would hate to be in this type of situation. Frankly, you really extended yourself during their time of need. I don’t think that you need to do more for them. I do think that their invite for dinner is a nice gesture, but now it is turning into something else. I would go to the dinner. I find nothing wrong with their explaining to the others that they are treating you and your H because of the nice things that you did for them. If they don’t do this and you need to now split the bill (and perhaps pay for the BD meal/s), I would pay and not say anything then. Later, I would privately either tell her directly about how you feel (I would feel a little manipulated and taken advantage of, but I am more sensitive about things than most), or I would say nothing and this relationship would grow more distant.</p>
<p>I have a friend who also measures the cost of meals. It really bothers me, but I have not directly said anything, since I choose to pick my battles. I do not mind if we both have an equally expensive meal or her dish is a few dollars more, but I do resent when she over orders knowing the bill will be split and does not eat what she orders. She regularly will order an appetizer plus a soup in addition to the main dish plus a dessert. She’ll take two bites of the soup and leave the rest. Who does that? I feel $5 split in half is not worth ruining a friendship, BUT when I am taken advantage of for more, I speak up (not about money/meals, but taken advantage in other ways). It has not ruined the friendship over, but it has changed it a little bit because of this type of behavior. I don’t measure things, but when I feel manipulated or just taken advantage of more than once or twice, I have a problem with it.</p>
<p>Cross posted with all posts after #12.</p>
<p>thanks poetgrl-
Thats why I started this thread-- to see it from others’ perspectives. This is just very typical of this friend. And it is fine to invite the third couple. We like them. But the kicker was deciding that this was now an “opportunity for us to be able to celebrate her DH’s birthday with him.”</p>
<p>oh I know that. I’m the type to be in this type of situation, honestly.</p>
<p>I know exactly what’s bugging you about it. It would bug the heck out of me, too.</p>
<p>This is not as serious, but I have this freind who is always fifteen minutes late, no matter what. When I realized this, I just started showing up fifteen minutes later for our plans, but then she started showing up even later than that.</p>
<p>I said to her, “Why do you think I am always waiting for you whenever we make plans? I find it confusing.”</p>
<p>She said, “I don’t know.”</p>
<p>The next three times we met, she showed up on time.</p>
<p>After that, we kind of went back to the fifteen minutes. I decided she can’t help it. If she hadn’t tried for those three times after I said something? I might feel differently. Now, I just plan accordingly. I value her friendship quite a lot. She invariably makes me laugh, and I don’t think it’s “about me.” But, I sooo get what is so annoying about all of this to you.</p>
<p>I am so with Poetgrl on this!!! </p>
<p>And I must say (because I am avoiding work and posting on this thread instead) I don’t think this is about who is going to pay for THIS meal or how it will be split. I don’t think you would be irritated if you knew in your heart that these people were going to acknowledge your graciousness in some meaningful fashion. OR if this were the first time you had done the heavy lifting in the friendship. </p>
<p>There are some people who manage to wiggle out of things and inviting another couple AND talking about hubby’s birthday are clear signs that she is paving the way to get out of following up on her offer to take you out to dinner. By the way - who waits this long to do something really nice for someone who housed them for a week???</p>
<p>Jym - and next time just say blood pressure cuff. I had to google it to find out what you were talking about. ;)</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. Very helpful and varied perspectives. </p>
<p>This friend is the type that says whats on her mind and tends to be willing to give unsolicited advice as well, so I do think I could say something. And it is clearly bothering me because it happens a lot. So I am thinking maybe the night before, when we are out to dinner and theater (assuming she doesn’t have to cancel) I may consider asking her that since this was the thank you meal for our hospitality, did she think the third couple would feel uncomfortable in any way when the bill comes, as we would certainly not want them to feel that way. This way I am rechecking to see if thats still the plan and also expressing concern for the feelings of the third couple. How does that sound?</p>
<p>How does it sound to you?</p>
<p>That’s what matters.</p>
<p>LOL poetgrl. I am looking for feedback. You and I are both wearing our clinical hats.</p>
<p>I can simply ask her if she was still planning the dinner to be as a thank you for our hospitality. But that seems a little uncomfortable. But then I tend to be oversensitive about such things.</p>
<p>Posts 29 and 30 just crack me up!</p>
<p>Okay: feedback like you are my kid, not my peer:</p>
<p>The problem isn’t the dinner. So, if you address the dinner, then what will you do the next time?</p>
<p>The problem is that you feel taken for granted and taken advantage of.</p>
<p>So, you can say something about the dinner, but you will still have to change the way you are interacting with her in order to not over extend yourself on her behalf. She is not the type to carry her gratitude with her for things and you will have to make future choices, in terms of giving with her in terms of: if she never thanks me for this, properly, do I still want to do it?</p>
<p>Those are my unedited thoughts. ymmv, as we say.</p>
<p>Funny, in our circle if one person invites a bunch of people to dinner for his/her spouse’s b-day, the person setting up the party pays for everyone. We figure it is like throwing a party at one’s home without all the clean-up. So, if I were invited for a birthday dinner I wouldn’t expect to pay whether I was promised a free meal or not. I guess you need to know your group norms.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sounds spot on to me.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have been through this with same friend that I described earlier. When we go out as couples they are also about 15-20 minutes late. My DH has joked about it with them a few times. After a couple of jokes about it, when I met her for lunch she showed up ONE HOUR early and sat a table for this length of time without being kicked out (it was a quiet time for the restaurant as they do their main business for dinner). I asked why she came an hour early and she said she just did, not sure why. Since then so far she has been on time.</p>
<p>Thanks again everyone. We all have our high maintenance friends, eh?</p>
<p>Yes, this friend will do it again, And again. And I have set firmer boundaries on some of her behavior (eg saying NO to the last two times she tried to invite herself in on plans we had with others) and also NO to her original expectation that she’d stay with us again for several days while their floors were being redone. She asked me to handle getting the theater tickets (she was “too busy”) and said she’d send me a check, but now that I reminded her she wants to pay me when we go. OK, but if she bails on me or asks me to find someone else I will either drag my poor H to a “girls show” or ask her to pay me for her ticket as we’d agreed. Next time, if there is one, I will ask her to order the tix (we could only get seats together if ordered at the same time). Or if she cancels on me and it ever comes up again I will remind her that she has done this to me twice.</p>
<p>She has done nice things for me, and I am appreciative of that, but she is very myopic when it comse to seeing how she comes across to others. She calls it being “cueless and clueless”, but I dont know that she sees it in herself.</p>
<p>I think we all have friends like this. Unless we are this friend and then we wouldn’t recognize it. </p>
<p>I have a relative who my D says was the mean girl in HS. She is just so clueless how her behavior affects other people. She is so oblivious about how she hurts people and now her children affect the same behavior. I am so appalled sometimes. </p>
<p>But she is a nice person in her way. I accept that but I also am the person that I am. I am kind and generous and even if someone else is not, it’s just who I am.</p>
<p>Well, if you decide to talk to your friend at the theatre/dinner girl outing, I say we start a pool. My bet is that she offers to pay for THAT little dinner in lieu of the other, couples, dinner.</p>
<p>worknprogress,
I was planning to bring it up AFTER dinner :D</p>
<p>If she remembers (is reminded) that she offered to pay, we may end up at a place with a coupon. If she anticipates its for her DH’s birthday, she may want to pick a nicer place…</p>
<p>
It sounds like the thought of dinner is making you queasy!</p>
<p>I hate the whole who pays what for dinner, I am that person who minimizing my meal costs, about 20 years ago a very close friend often did the wine, apps, dessert, let’s split the bill routine, and they were better off financially than I was. It did not take too long before I just stopped doing dinner with them. Ironically, she still owes me several hundred dollars for cash that I loaned her. There were some half-hearted attempts, but she never actually repaid me.</p>
<p>I guess it is time to get a bit self-protective with her, as you said in #35. Post #28 about clarifying the night before in an effort to be sensitive to couple #3 seems like a good middle ground.</p>
<p>Post #29/30 crack me up, two therapists asking each other how that makes you feel :D</p>
<p>In my circle if girlfriends take out the birthday girl for lunch, the friends pay; if the couple arrange the dinner, the couple pays or it’s dutch treat.</p>