To Rush a Sorority or not to Rush

Parent Cafe
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<p>Sorry. But, I’m going to have to call for a research citation on the grade claims. I’m sure that the GPA issue has been researched by many colleges, so if you claim is true, the frat boys will have endless citations of the research along with their oft-published claims of no drinking.</p>

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<p>I, too, have never been a fan of Greek organizations. I realize that so many factors that can make it a negative or postitive situation. I just don’t think I could ever get past the underlying concept that group members “vote” on who is allowed to join.</p>

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<p>Evidence:
<a href=“http://www.betachitheta.com/eta/v2/rush.php[/url]”>http://www.betachitheta.com/eta/v2/rush.php&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.purdue.edu/odos/sao/greek/reports/scholarship/panhel_gpa_sp04.pdf[/url]”>http://www.purdue.edu/odos/sao/greek/reports/scholarship/panhel_gpa_sp04.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“U-M Weblogin - Stale Request”>U-M Weblogin - Stale Request;

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<p>I’ll ditto all the positive comments above. I was in a sorority from 1974 - 78 in a large state college and my experience was overwhelmingly positive. I was V.P. of my sorority in my senior year or junior year ( can’t remember) along with serving as a rush counselor. Rush is superficial - no way around it and I’m sure good people, especially introverts get lost in the shuffle. </p>

<p>I did drink at the Frat parties and sometimes to excess - Curiousity got the better of me and I actually thought it was fun at the time along with being perfectly legal. I still drink an occasional glass of wine but never to excess. I dated three different guys in three different frats over my four years - one was pre veterinarian, one was studying to be a farmer (yeah, you have to go to college for that now) and one was a fellow advertising design major. They were all smart guys who studied hard and got good grades. I was also a little sister in one of the frats. ( no, it’s not a sexual thing) I encountered drunken people but never had a problem with date rape or knew of anyone that did - I assume it might be different now. This was in the middle of Iowa - a pretty socially conservative place. </p>

<p>And while there was free flowing beer at parties, there are just as many events that don’t involve drinking. We teamed up with fraternities to build floats for parades, put on a variety show, hold general philanthropic fund raisers and serenade each other ( my favorite thing - kind of like a cappella groups ). </p>

<p>Most fraternities and sororities require members to maintain a certain G.P.A. or they are put on probation.</p>

<p>I also wonder if drinking is high in frats and sororities because they attract the type of students who like to party - those students would probably be drinking one way or the other. Not everyone is like that though - there was a true mix of girls in my sorority - an eclectic mix of personalities, interests, backgrounds and majors along with a variety of party temperaments. Not an ounce of diversity - It was Iowa after all. </p>

<p>I didn’t own a pearl necklace or Coach bag till I started working but I do remember having to worry about what to wear to rush. I would compare it to a job interview or elite college admissions, not a popularity contest. A choice has to be made because there is only so much space in a house. We never judged people on what they wore during rush - we looked at their personalities and what they had to offer in terms of fit and if I remember correctly we were concerned about their grades. I remember because we thought it was cool to get the local valedictorian.</p>

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<p>I have a nephew at Stanford and a good friend with a daughter at Stanford. I was told there are beer bottles overflowing out of the garbage bins after the weekend. There are beer bottles spread out all over the hallways of some of the dorms after a Saturday night.</p>

<p>I heard the Friday night event at Stanford before the Big Game with Cal featured nudity and raunchy behavior (I wasn’t there :frowning: ).</p>

<p>So it is not just the frat-sorority scene that has drinking +.</p>

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<p>barrons, I’m sure interestedad will have similar links showing lower academic achievement. He can also argue that this data, particularly at large state universities, are misleading in that the membership of the organizations generally includes people who have certain attributes (income level, HS background) that skew the data. You can look all over the internet and find plenty of ammunition either way. </p>

<p>I tend to agree with the opening sentence of a survey of past studies: “Findings on academic achievement were non-generalizeable due to conflicting results. However, in later studies the social climate of the chapter (and institution) can be the most definitive influence on individual academic achievement.” </p>

<p>This wrangling happens every time the subject comes up, and nobody wins – again, because the <em>individual</em> Greek organizations vary so widely among campuses.</p>

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<p>Probably true but on average they certainly are not glaringly worse.</p>

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<p>I notice that in posting the Purdue sorority GPAs, you failed to post the similar information for the fraternities that is available on the same website:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.purdue.edu/odos/sao/greek/webpages/data_and_statistics.html[/url]”>http://www.purdue.edu/odos/sao/greek/webpages/data_and_statistics.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>BTW, your claim about higher grades included both fraternities and sororities.</p>

<p>This data is available for many colleges. A quick perusal shows that sororities hover around both sides of the all-girl campus averages, some slightly higher, some slightly lower. Fraternities are consistently below the all-male averages.</p>

<p>The statistics are skewed a bit by college requirements that Greeks maintain an individual and chapter GPA above the minimum GPA for staying in college, so “C” students are removed from the official membership roles for reporting purposes (although probably not removed from the Greek scene for all intents and purposes). However, C or D students are not removed from the campus wide GPA calculations.</p>

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<p>Interesteddad, whether a person goes Greek or not should depend on that person.</p>

<p>When I look at how many business leaders and political leaders have gone Greek, I have to believe there is a value in joining a fraternity or a sorority. Maybe a value that is even more important than higher grades.</p>

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<p>I’ve not offered an opinion on whether anyone should or should not “go Greek” in this thread.</p>

<p>I simply posted nationwide data comparing binge drinking and rape for Greek and non-Greek populations.</p>

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<p>You mentioned gpas in posts 21 and 28.</p>

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Told ya. </p>

<p>interesteddad – c’mon. Your parsing of words is silly. “in this thread”? “Simply” posting of binge drinking and rape statistics. </p>

<p>In OTHER threads you’ve left no doubt as to your opinion on whether someone should go Greek. I’ve got no problem with that. As I mentioned, I was very much a non-Greek, and at a large state university in the south that was dominated by Greeks, so it’s not like I’m an apologist for them. </p>

<p>Waaay back to the OP. I hope this squabbling has been helpful. My own opinion – if she’s interested and curious, she should go through rush. Nothing ventured, etc. But she should do it in a levelheaded way, with her eyes and ears open to pick up on “vibes” at the different houses, and the campus overall. She also might want to look back over the archives of the school newspaper (easy to do if they’re online) to check on the history of alcohol and other disciplinary infractions the sororities (and fraternities) have been through.</p>

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<p>There are many that show the frat men doing better than the average male. My first source made that claim. Yes it does vary by school but it certainly is not significantly worse.</p>

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<p>barrons: </p>

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<p>Now where is the data for THAT? If fraternal organizations are associates with higher levels of drinking, and higher levels of drinking are associated with lower grades, then how do you conclude that fraternity members have higher grades?:</p>

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<p>Ahh, read the results. Sororities tend to beat the all female average at a school and frats generally do better or at least are equal to other males. Google fraternity and sorority gpa and you can find tons of actual scores from schools all over.</p>

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<p>I cannot speak for nor am I trying to speak for the greek system at all colleges because if you polled at the stats at every college with a greek system, that is how many differnt responses you would end up with. The best thing you can do as parents is to research the school * where your child attends *to find out about the greek system because one size definitely does not fit all and every kid does not fall into the streotype. </p>

<p>How the greeks perfrom at Dartmouth… (so in this particular case barrons is correct that the sorority members are getting better grades.</p>

<p>The average Fall term GPA for houses in the Coed, Fraternity and Sorority system was ** just narrowly below the entire undergraduate College average, according to Office of Residential Life data obtained by The Dartmouth. An ORL report detailing the GPA breakdown house-by-house also showed that sororities surpassed fraternities and coeducational houses in overall GPA.**</p>

<p>The average GPA for all Greek affiliated undergraduates was 3.24 in the fall, a mere .04 points below the overall undergraduate average of 3.28. Interfraternity Council member organizations averaged a 3.20, significantly less than the Panhellenic Council organizations’ average of 3.39. Coed houses had an average GPA of 3.36, slightly below the sorority average.</p>

<p>When asked whether he was surprised by the virtual equivalency in GPA between Greek students and the entire undergraduate population, Dean of Residential Life Martin Redman said “absolutely not.”</p>

<p>“Dartmouth students are talented, whether they choose to join the Greek system or not,” Redman said. “I wouldn’t be surprised if the Greeks were the ones with a slight edge in the recent past.”</p>

<p>Alpha Xi Delta sorority ranked first among CFS organization Fall term, with a 3.47 average GPA. Over half of Alpha Xi’s members earned above a 3.5.</p>

<p>Alpha Xi member Chelsea Carroll ‘06 said that the overall academic spirit within the house is nurtured by weekly programming and contribute its members’ success.</p>

<p>“Our house has historically been very academically successful,” Carroll said. “We seem to draw people though the rush process who are attracted to our academic record. That definitely has an effect on our academic standing within the CFS.”</p>

<p>The highest fraternity average was that of Sigma Phi Epsilon, at 3.43. The only other fraternity to rank among the top 10 CFS averages was Sigma Alpha Epsilon, with a 3.39 GPA. Neither fraternity sported members with GPAs below a 2.0.</p>

<p>Sig Ep President Morgan Brown cited weekly study sessions and an in-house tutoring list as important factors for the fraternity’s academic success.</p>

<p>“Our scholarship chair, Sean Anthony '06, led a stronger than usual effort last term to encourage our brothers to focus on academics in several ways,” Morgan said.</p>

<p>Two coed houses, Phi Tau and Alpha Theta, made the top ten ranking, tied with an average GPA of 3.46. The College’s third coed house, The Tabard, averaged a 3.17 GPA last fall.</p>

<p>***While all six Panhellenic sororities scored above the undergraduate College average of 3.28, only four fraternities matched the feat – Sig Ep, SAE, Alpha Chi Alpha, and Sigma Nu. ***</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2005020401030[/url]”>http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2005020401030&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Report of the greek life steering committee </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sli/pdf/greek_life_0006.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~sli/pdf/greek_life_0006.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>A few more</p>

<p><a href=“http://greeks.unc.edu/office/programs_services/reports/spring2005.pdf[/url]”>http://greeks.unc.edu/office/programs_services/reports/spring2005.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Admissions at Kansas State University”>Admissions at Kansas State University;

<p><a href=“http://www.greeklife.ucla.edu/scholarship.htm[/url]”>http://www.greeklife.ucla.edu/scholarship.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.northwestern.edu/gogreek/geninfo/overview.html[/url]”>http://www.northwestern.edu/gogreek/geninfo/overview.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://ase.tufts.edu/greek/pdf/Stats%20Spring%2005.pdf[/url]”>http://ase.tufts.edu/greek/pdf/Stats%20Spring%2005.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.kugreek.org/[/url]”>http://www.kugreek.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www3.lehigh.edu/greeklife/trends.asp[/url]”>http://www3.lehigh.edu/greeklife/trends.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.units.muohio.edu/saf/GRA/Facts-[/url]”>http://www.units.muohio.edu/saf/GRA/Facts-&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2005/feb/cap022405.html[/url]”>http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2005/feb/cap022405.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.miami.edu/greek-life/[/url]”>http://www.miami.edu/greek-life/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.odos.uiuc.edu/greek/ParentsGuide.pdf[/url]”>http://www.odos.uiuc.edu/greek/ParentsGuide.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.student.virginia.edu/~ifcouncl/rush_faqs.php[/url]”>http://www.student.virginia.edu/~ifcouncl/rush_faqs.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Coed, fraternity sorority year in review</p>

<p><a href=“Home | Office of Residential Life”>Home | Office of Residential Life;

<p>GPA information pg 14</p>

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<p>To coin a phrase “myth busted”.</p>

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<p>It was YOUR myth. You claimed that "frat and sorority memebers tend to have higher grades than the average student… "</p>

<p>I haven’t seen you post much data that supports your myth. Sorority girls tend to be barely above average. Frat boys tend to be slighly below average. A few exceptions in either direction.</p>

<p>I think that we can conclude that greek membership in general holds the promise of grades that are “about average”. I will concede that this is more positive than the promise of high rates of binge drinking and sexual assault.</p>