To the dads out there:

<p>JLauer, there multiple pathologies in which being a COA can manifest. I like NSM’s info. For a good, short, informative tour d’horizon, I do recommend Judith Woititz’ ADULT CHILDREN OF ALCOHOLICS. I recommend it not only for COA’s, but those who have close relations with them.</p>

<p>It has been suggested, a couple of times, that I am a control freak due to my early experiences with alcoholics, that I learned early that the world went to hell in a handbasket when I’m wasn’t in control. The notion that I’m in any way a control freak is laughable, of course, but if you accept the premise for sake of argument, it’s an interesting hypothesis that bears up to substantial scrutiny. (Being a control freak is the flip side of distrusting the authority of others, as in parental figures who, due to alcoholism or similar dysfunction, are incompetent and/or untrustworthy in forming judgments and making commitments.)</p>

<p>TheDad:</p>

<p>thanks for the info. I like the idea of a book that is for the ACoA and those around them (such as my H who is close to his mom who is an ACoA). </p>

<p>My m-i-l is very nice but I’ve always known/sensed that there was something not “normal” about her (the fact that she could never discipline her kids or “correct them” whenever they did anything wrong. And the fact that she “lost herself” in an effort to “please” her husband.) She can never speak up or say that ANYTHING is wrong or even that anything bothers her (It is well known that she and her late husband of 53 years NEVER had ANY kind of an argument – even tho it was well known how difficult HE was to live with. I always thought that was odd but that was because I never knew about all these ACoA issues of being a pleaser and not expressing personal views, etc)</p>

<p>I wish I could locate my copy but as I was thinking about it over dinner, some stuff started coming back to me. One of them is that COA’s tend to be either hyper-responsible or hyper-irresponsible. You occasionally read about a 10- , 11- , or 12-year-old kid who keeps a family together, organizing everything. There goes one of the hyper-responsible ones.</p>

<p>Especially over time, many COA’s have an exaggerated “it wasn’t so bad” reaction that in many ways denies the experience. Of course, I’ve seen some wallow in it, too.</p>

<p>But one point that was alluded to earlier is that sometimes COA’s really do have to guess at what “normal” is. </p>

<p>Otooh, I think that COAness is sometimes overblown. (See also, it’s not so bad.) Imo, virtually all families have some interesting pathologies if you dig far enough. My embracing term for all of it is “the human experience.”</p>

<p>Something that has made sense to me…“you can love the alcoholic but hate the disease”. So much of what you are seeing are symptoms of the disease. While your parent is still accountable you can seperate who he is from what the disease has made him into…if that makes any sense. </p>

<p>Many people in life a dealt a tough hand of cards but learn how to play their hand well enough that they end up with a decent hand (life) after all. You seem like a very courageous person who will not only “survive” the situation but in time learn how to triumph over it. While children of alcoholics have some tough legacies from that early life there is also research that shows that a very large percentage achieve and some even need to be careful not to become overachievers to the point it becomes a negative. Look at some Presidential and CEO histories with alcoholic parents and you’ll see what I mean. ACOAs can be some of the most resilient folks around. A trait that can be useful in this day and age.</p>

<p>sagekid, I want to offer you two pieces of advice.</p>

<p>The first one is a very nice thing that someone once told me when I was complaining about my mom: “Well, you have two chances to have a great mother-child relationship. You didn’t get it on the child end, but you can get it on the mom end.” I have found a lot of healing in being a good mom to my kids and giving them some of the things I had wanted when I was young.</p>

<p>Two is to cherish and preserve your relationship with your brother. I think it is easy, growing up in a family where the kids are being shortchanged, to become competitive with siblings for the ‘crumbs.’ I think that happened to me. My brother, sister, and I fought like crazy. When I was a teen, my brother died-- and it woke me up to how much I was taking my siblings for granted, that they’d always be there. Now, my sister is one of the best and most constant friends I have. It sounds like you are allied-- always keep it that way.</p>

<p>The things I tell my son are to be kind, loving, responsible, & hardworking. Protect young women, don’t exploit them. Stand up for what is right. Don’t take idiotic risks. Do your best. If you blow it, apologize swiftly and completely. Have a sense of humor.</p>

<p>Good luck to you!!</p>

<p>Hi Sagekid,
my ex is an alcoholic/drug abuser, and I removed my children from the situation one day when their father, in an alcoholic blackout, threw a recliner chair across a room, and my 2 children simply sat and continued playing on the floor, the only notice my son took was to keep his one eye on the chair to make sure it didn’t land on him. I did not want my children growing up thinking this was normal life, because it seemed like they already did think it was normal. my son has struggled with his feelings, although he does not show it too well. he remains distant from male figures. he hates alcohol of any type, and when I dated, nobody was allowed to bring wine or beer to our house. I also do not drink at all, ever. My ex eventually went to rehab, and I went to a family rehab program. I am not a big fan of AA, especially the family things. I found the most revered people in these groups were the most suffering…ie) what I would often hear from the “leader” of the group I went to was something like…“my husband came home stinking drunk, had urinated himself, threw my dinner across the kitchen then told me how stupid I was etc etc”, then everybody would say “wow, she sure is great, she works the program and stays with her husband”. meanwhile I’m thinking she’s an idiot, and why doesn’t she just leave. hence, I did not fit in. one thing you said struck me, that your dad sometimes is alcoholic, sometimes not. that’s not possible. he is always an alcoholic. sometimes they stop drinking, and that can be more awful than when they do drink. I don’t know how your dad is. when they stop, they have no support, so they get very angry, abusive, viscious. every time my ex decided he was going to stop, usually about a week into it I would bring him a drink to stop the awfullness. I agree with the controlling thing, I became very controlling, and still have a component of that. My son truly has nothing to do with his dad, I don’t even think about that part of my life, and my daughter does see him, but she was too young to remember the bad stuff. having said all that, I think it’s important that you read the books suggested, and most importantly that you read the “big book” of alcoholics anonymous. It is the story of the founder, and it can give you a few “aha” moments to understand that what you go through, millions of people go through. but that doesn’t make it easier. you truly have to find your way through this, wether it is al-anon, ACOA, a private counselor, (which is the route I went), or any number of other options. since you are still in high school I would seek out a guidance counselor, because they can also start a group of kids of alcoholics, which my son attended in middle school. they learn the basics of what goes on here stays here, confidentiality, all in the safety of a group of kids all experiencing the same thing. Or perhaps you can just have regular sessions with the counselor to talk. I wish you much luck, and do not let your father’s disease define you, detach from it, don’t make excuses for it, and allow him to suffer any consequences of his actions and behaviors. and if your mom is not an alcoholic, it is her job to get you out of that situation, get you the assistance you need, and not have your brother raise you, how utterly ridiculous to even think that is OK, not ridiculous of you to think that, because that is how you survive, but of anybody observing the situation. yes, she is probably dealing with alot of things, just as I did. But her job is to care for her children, and you need to sit down and talk to her, and in some way make her understand that things are not OK, and you need her to be the grown up, NOT your brother. good luck kiddo. I’m here if you need me.</p>

<p>Sagekid, you are a real champ to reach out in this forum. </p>

<p>As you’ve no doubt noticed, caring people gladly give advice. You’ll find this is true w/ school counselors, teachers, coaches, uncles, neighbors, and friends’ parents. I bet you have a good sense of whom to approach for sound ideas and information. I remember wondering about normal, too. What I don’t remember is why I didn’t ASK someone. As an adult, I could kick myself for all my youthful worrying and neuroses, when plenty of people would have gladly pitched in, if only I’d spoken up … the way you are. (I had some childish ideas that if I revealed the alcohol problems at home, I’d land in some Dickensian orphanage. In retrospect, I realize I didn’t have to offer up details; people are happy to help kids who just have uncommunicative parents, too.)</p>

<p>It’s scary to wonder if today is the day a dry-string will end, or if a random event will end in a drunken fury. I’m glad you and your brother have such a strong bond. I hope it helps you understand on a visceral level that you two have no role in causing the crazy stuff you live with. </p>

<p>Ask us specific questions, or ask an adult you trust. You seem like an unusually wise and well-balanced young person. Trust yourself, too. </p>

<p>You know what’s funny? When my widowed mother finally got herself straightened out, she had ABSOLUTELY NO MEMORY of all this baggage I was lugging around! By then I’d gotten some very useful professional counseling (there are therapists specializing in ACoA’s) and was able to conclude that if my childhood didn’t define her, it sure as hell shouldn’t define me!</p>

<p>NoCalMom, I had to laugh at "When my widowed mother finally got herself straightened out, she had ABSOLUTELY NO MEMORY of all this baggage I was lugging around! " It’s really not so funny, but my mom is losing it and I have to confess that it has crossed my mind "Phew… at least when she spews my secret and oh so embarassing past to my D I can say “oh well, you know how Mimi is…” Is that horrible???</p>

<p>I say, find your laughs where you can. I suspect my mother played the Dementia Card on me a time or two herself.</p>

<p>“I had some childish ideas that if I revealed the alcohol problems at home, I’d land in some Dickensian orphanage.”</p>

<p>Don’t beat yourself up about this. All of us middle aged parents grew up in a time in which there were no TV shows in which people spilled their life secrets, celebrities were shunned for revealing drug/alcohol/promiscuity/abortions, etc. ; being alcoholic was considered a sin and lower than the low; there were not self help books or groups for people who came from dysfunctional families; and our parents told us flat out that it was horrible to talk about family secrets, and our society screamed at us that our parents were right. Guidance counselors, ministers, etc. were not getting training in how to help children from alcoholic families, kids who were sexually abused, etc. </p>

<p>Anyway, those of us who grew up in dysfunctional families and said nothing were doing exactly what society told us to do. Also, if we had spoken up, there’s a very good chance that we would’t have gotten much support even from people like teachers who were supposed to support us.People back then simply didn’t have the knowledge and education about family dysfunction that they have now. There also were no Internet boards like this that one could turn to for support.</p>

<p>Also, children who ended up being removed from their parents’ homes often had some very dreadful experiences. Happened then. Happens now.</p>

<p>First of all, you are taking the best and healthiest step in seeking help and input. That is what traps many alcoholics, particularly men — the refusal to ask for help. At least for my generation (I am 50), we were socialized that a man asking for help was a sign of weakness. That type of thinking is garbage.</p>

<p>I know a little about this, as a child of an alcoholic (mom), though she didn’t really start drinking until I started college. Perhaps more importantly, I followed in her footsteps, and have been sober now for almost 13 years. So I have seen all sides of the fence. I have a 17 year old son fully enmeshed in the college search process, so I fully understand the rat race. BTW, he is dead set against drinking, even though he can’t remember me ever drinking.</p>

<p>No long pearls of wisdom here – just a few highlights, based on personal experience.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Always ask for help or input, and don’t be afraid to express your concerns/feelings, whether to a friend/counselor/religious figure/AlAnon meeting. We are only as sick as our secrets, and problems have a way of magnifying themselves when they stay stuck in your brain.</p></li>
<li><p>Watch out for a tendency to be “hyper-vigilant” toward others – wondering whether there is some hidden meaning or agenda in what they do or say, or trying to be too much of a caretaker for them. A child of an alcoholic is used to “walking on eggshells” and tends to project their fears and suspicions on others. Try not to do it – it can be destructive to your other relationships. Don’t be afraid to explain your situation to friends/girlfriends etc. You’ll be amazed at how positive most people will be.</p></li>
<li><p>Don’t be afraid to try new things, experiment and open yourself up to others emotionally. That is not permission to engage in self-destructive behavior, such as drugs, etc. Instead, it is a way to overcome the tendency kids with alcoholic parents have to withdraw and seek safe harbors. If you do this, you will sometimes fail, and you will sometimes get hurt, but the rewards far outweigh the pain over the long haul, and you will grow immeasurably as a person.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>'Nuff said. Good for you!</p>

<p>Jeff</p>