To Transfer, or Not To Transfer (HELP!!)

Colleges & Universities University of Michigan
1

<p>I am a current Freshman in the LSA Honors Program at the University of Michigan considering transferring to, of all places, Michigan State University; I would start at MSU in the Fall 2009 Semester.</p>

<p>My reasons for this are many and varied, but the main ones are the following:</p>

<li><p>At Michigan State I would be in an apartment with three of my good high school friends; one of them is on the exact same pre-medicine track as I am.
At Michigan, I have absolutely no one from my high school.</p></li>
<li><p>My older sister will be in Graduate School at Michigan State for the next two years. The word “convenience” pops up here.</p></li>
<li><p>My primary goal is to gain entrance into Medical School in 3-3.5 years, however I would like to major in Political Science; James Madison College at MSU is world-renowned for its education in the Political Science Field.</p></li>
<li><p>Finances aren’t a huge concern, but Michigan State does have a cheaper tuition than Michigan.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>For all you experts out there, my question is this: Would transferring to Michigan State University be a wise move? As far as earning entrance to Medical School, would a U. of M. degree really carry that much more weight than an MSU degree? Personally, I assume that performance matters over anything else.</p>

<p>Please offer me your upper-echelon advice.</p>

2

<p>

</li>
</ol>

<p>Frankly, these are pretty crappy reasons. If convenience was your primary goal, why not just live with your parents and attend whatever community college is in the area. It’s great to have high school friends - why not make some college ones at your current college?</p>

3

<p>You’ve been in A2 for a little more than a month, give it some time before you make a decision.</p>

4

<p>I can’t speak to your other reasons; the personal ones are for you to weigh. I don’t know about med school. I will say that I think one month in is a little soon to make up your mind about your present school.</p>

<p>But I can speak to cost: Michigan State is not that much cheaper than U-M, at least not as far as tuition is concerned. The gap’s been pretty small for several years, and continues to close.</p>

5

<p>You will make new friends at Michigan, you just need to give it time. </p>

<p>Your family and sister will always be near by. Lansing is less than a one hour’s drive from Ann Arbor. Either way, I can’t imagine how living in Lansing would be more “convinient” than living in Ann Arbor, unless you intend for your sister to cook and clean for you.</p>

<p>Michigan’s Political Science department is better than MSUs. Sorry, but the James Madison College is neither “World Renowned” nor does it come close to Michigan’s PS department. Yes, it is very good (top 20 in the US), but comparing James Madison College to Michigan’s PS department would be like comparing Penn State or Texas A&M to Stanford or Cal in Engineering…or like comparing Baylor or UCSD to Johns Hopkins in Medicine.</p>

<p>I strongly recommend you stick to Michigan st this stage.</p>

6

<p>I am not sure why you would bring up the comparison between Penn State to Stanford or Cal, considering that Penn State is just as highly ranked as both is most areas of engineering.</p>

<p>Alexandre, Michigan is not a bad school, but you need to get off of it and stop acting like it’s some ivy. Honestly, the university didn’t even make the top 25 in usnews this year. </p>

<p>It really doesn’t matter about MSU and UM. If you want to go to MSU, then go. As long as you do well you will be fine with going to medical school.</p>

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<p>“I am not sure why you would bring up the comparison between Penn State to Stanford or Cal, considering that Penn State is just as highly ranked as both is most areas of engineering.”</p>

<p>"Alexandre, Michigan is not a bad school, but you need to get off of it and stop acting like it’s some ivy. Honestly, the university didn’t even make the top 25 in usnews this year. "</p>

<p>You sound like someone very obsessed with rankings, with some naivette. I don’t know what to tell you if you actually think Penn State is actually similar to Stanford and Cal in engineering. </p>

<p>Michigan isn’t an ivy, and nobody was ever dumb enough to say that it was, and it’s easily verifiable if you check out ESPN.com that Michigan belongs in the Big Ten conference. And I really don’t need to waste anyone’s time here explaining how it doesn’t matter where Michigan is ranked in usnews.</p>

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<p>Rankings are only not important to those that are not able to get ranked well.</p>

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<p>jec, you don’t know what you are talking about. As an alum of both Michigan and an Ivy League school, I can say with confidence that Michigan is at least as good as half the Ivies…if not better. Even the USNWR, which is extremely biased against publics, ranks Michigan within 10-15 spots of half the Ivies. MSU is ranked what? #65? #70? There isn’t much of a difference between #10 and #25, but there is a significant difference between #25 and #70. And if you look at their reputation within academe, Michigan’s peer assessment score (4.4) matches that of 5 Ivies (Brown, 4.3, Columbia 4.5, Cornell 4.5, Dartmouth 4.3, Penn 4.5). So you may not think Michigan is an elite university, but clearly, many people in the know disagree with you.</p>

<p>And my point was not to belittle PSU. Clearly, it is an excellent, top 20 Engineering school. But it is not on par with Cal and Stanford…just as MSU is not on par with Michigan in Political Science. There is nothing wrong with that mind you. Even Michigan is not on par with Cal and Stanford in Engineering…and Michigan is ranked closer to Cal and Stanford in Engineering than PSU.</p>

<p>And just to make sure that we don’t confuse the issue, according to the latest USNWR undergraduate rankings:</p>

<p>ENGINEERING OVERALL</p>

<h1>2 Stanford</h1>

<h1>2 Cal</h1>

<h1>7 Michigan</h1>

<h1>17 PSU</h1>

<p>AEROSPACE ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>3 Michigan</h1>

<h1>7 Stanford</h1>

<h1>14 PSU</h1>

<p>N/A Cal</p>

<p>BIOMEDICAL ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>7 Michigan</h1>

<h1>14 Stanford</h1>

<p>Cal and PSU unranked</p>

<p>CHEMICAL ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>2 Cal</h1>

<h1>5 Stanford</h1>

<h1>10 Michigan</h1>

<h1>16 PSU</h1>

<p>CIVIL ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>2 Cal</h1>

<h1>6 Stanford</h1>

<h1>7 Michigan</h1>

<h1>14 PSU</h1>

<p>COMPUTER ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>2 Stanford</h1>

<h1>4 Cal</h1>

<h1>7 Michigan</h1>

<p>PSU unranked</p>

<p>ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>2 Stanford</h1>

<h1>4 Michigan</h1>

<h1>6 Michigan</h1>

<p>PSU unranked</p>

<p>ENGINEERING PHYSICS</p>

<h1>2 Michigan</h1>

<h1>2 Stanford</h1>

<h1>6 PSU</h1>

<p>N/A Cal</p>

<p>ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>1 Stanford</h1>

<h1>3 Cal</h1>

<h1>8 Michigan</h1>

<h1>20 PSU</h1>

<p>INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>2 Michigan</h1>

<h1>4 PSU</h1>

<h1>5 Cal</h1>

<h1>6 Stanford</h1>

<p>MATERIALS</p>

<h1>2 Michigan</h1>

<h1>3 Cal</h1>

<h1>6 Stanford</h1>

<h1>10 PSU</h1>

<p>MECHANICAL ENGINEERING</p>

<h1>2 Michigan</h1>

<h1>3 Cal</h1>

<h1>5 Stanford</h1>

<h1>11 PSU</h1>

<p>And in terms of Political Science, Michigan is ranked #3 in Political Science according to the USNWR. MSU is ranked #22. There is a difference there. </p>

<p>Finally, it is irresponsible of you to say that the OP should attend MSU. More than 50% of pre-meds entering college never follow through. I agree that if the OP ends up applying to Medical School, attending MSU would not seriously jeoperdize his chances. However, if the OP wishes to go to Law School or hit the work place, I would have to say Michigan holds a significant edge over MSU.</p>

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<p>FYI Alexandre, the OP wants to be in the James Madison College of MSU. This is NOT part of the political science department in the College of Social Sciences of MSU, but a residential college with majors of international relations, social policy, political theory/constitutional democracy, and comparative cultures/politics. You cannot compare James Madison college to Michigan’s political science because their programs are not compatible and residential colleges for specific majors are not included in rankings of political science departments. Arguably the education in the JMC of Michigan state is just as good (if not more specialized) as Michigan’s political science program; how in the world would you know that it is not?!? Just a simple statistic to prove my point; 95% of James madison college graduates from 2006 have been placed in jobs, graduate school, or other similar commitments within six months of graduation. This percentage is certain to be higher than nearly all school graduates of any major anywhere. Not too shabby… and then if James madison college wasn’t world renowned at all, why would the US News rankings recognize James Madison College (one of 3 ‘stellar’ MSU programs) that is “linked to student success” listed among the magazine’s “Programs to Look For” in its recent rankings of America’s best colleges??? Because if rankings matter, that’s saying something about the quality of the program at MSU.</p>

11

<p>fa-la-la-la-lena, I do not question the education quality at MSU or JMC in particular, but if one is going to turn down a top 3 program in the nation at a university of Michigan’s stature, it had better be for one hell of a unique opportunity, like Harvard or Oxford.</p>

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<p>“top 3 program in the nation at a university of Michigan’s stature, it had better be for one hell of a unique opportunity, like Harvard or Oxford.”</p>

<p>Wow, you’re impressed with yourself and Michigan. I don’t care if you have a biased opinion that says that Michigan is just as good an education as any Ivy league school, that doesn’t make it so. I, as well as the rest of Penn State, don’t give a d a m n what you think about Penn State. It’s just funny how condescending many of you michigan people are(especially toward MSU), yourself included, when really you are often more impressed with yourself than we are with you. You are questioning the quality of the education at MSU, by being appalled that anyone would actually pass on a Michigan education to go there. Listen, the Michigan acceptance is 62.5%…Michigan State has an acceptance rate of 79.4% (<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-11-02-collegerates_x.htm)%5B/url%5D”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-11-02-collegerates_x.htm)</a>. Maybe you should get on a high horse when your acceptance rate actually breaks into the 50s. This is not the first time I have seen you doing this with jaded view of Michigan. You can like your school and talk it up with trying to tear other schools down. Michigan has many great programs, but stop acting like those that attend are god’s intellectual gift to this earth. It’s just not that hard to get accepted. Also, for the most part those rankings are very similar in many of the engineering fields.</p>

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<p>One thing you might want to keep in mind is how you’ll have to take a bunch of required classes for James Madison, as I don’t think any U-M Polisci classes will transfer since it’s a residential college.</p>

<p>The most important question is: Where do you want to go? Either school is going to give you a lot of opportunities, but if you’re going to be miserable at Michigan, maybe you should transfer. I’d say apply anyway and then make your decision at the end of Winter semester. Who knows - maybe you’ll make some great friends and fall in love with U-M!</p>

14

<p>That link doesn’t work. Which is unfortunate, because I don’t understand what it is citing. </p>

<p>I know some pretty impressive grads from MSU and from James Madison College, so I don’t think it’s a poor option for the OP. However, I wouldn’t want him or her to make hasty decisions based on flawed info, though–which was why I brought up the cost thing, and which is also why I think we need to recheck the acceptance rate for both schools.</p>

<p>ETA: Both are better than what is cited above. U-M’s fall 2007 rate was 50.3%. MSU’s was 73.8%.</p>

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<p>“Listen, the Michigan acceptance is 62.5%…Michigan State has an acceptance rate of 79.4%.”</p>

<p>Umm… NO. but good luck to ya.</p>

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<p>As of this summer, Michigan accepted around 42% of their applicants this year, the final number is not out yet. But I somewhat agree with jec7483, Michigan’s biggest weaknesses are its selectivity and admission policy.</p>

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<p>jec7483. I’m not quite sure why a PSU grad would be ■■■■■■■■ around the Michigan boards making comments using inaccurate information? I suppose I could do the same thing in the Penn State listing on the CC top universities section. But wait, I couldn’t find the school listed there. Nevermind.</p>

18

<p>JEC, Michigan accepted 42% of its applicants last admissions cycle. And the year before that, Michigan accepted 50% and the year before that, 47%. I am not sure where you got that 62% acceptance rate. That sounds like a figure from like 2000 or 2001. At any rate, acceptance rates are not as important as quality of student body and do not determine selectivity. In fact, acceptance rates are completely misleading and meaningless. </p>

<p>According to the USNWR which you seem to respect, Michigan’s selectivity rank is #18 in the nation, just below #11 Brown, #14 Cornell and slightly higher than #21 University of Chicago and Johns Hopkins. MSU’s selectivity rating, on the other hand, is probably not among the top 100. Of course, we don’t know for sure because USNWR only shares selectivity rankings for the top 50 universities. But PSU’s selectivity ranking is #85 in the nation, and since PSU is significantly more selective than MSU, I would have to estimate that MSU isn’t one of the 100 most selective universities in the country. Here’s a comparison of selectivity data:</p>

<p>% of students graduating in the top 10% of their high school class:
Brown University: 92%
University of Michigan: 92%
Cornell University: 87%
University of Chicago: 87%
Johns Hopkins University: 82%
Michigan State University: 29%</p>

<p>Mid 50% ACT range:
Brown University: 28-33
University of Chicago: 28-33
Cornell University: 28-32
Johns Hopkins University: 28-32
University of Michigan: 27-31
Michigan State University: 23-27</p>

<p>ACT average:
Brown University: 30.5
University of Chicago: 30.5
Cornell University: 30
Johns Hopkins University: 30
University of Michigan: 29
Michigan State University: 25</p>

<p>Mid 50% SAT
Brown University: 1330-1530 (super-scored)
University of Chicago: 1350-1510 (super scored)
Cornell University: 1300-1490 (super-scored)
Johns Hopkings University: 1290-1500 (super-scored)
University of Michigan:1220-1420 (not super-scored)
Michigan State University: 1000-1270 (not super-scored)</p>

<p>SAT average:
Brown University: 1430 (superscored)
University of Chicago: 1430 (superscored)
Cornell University: 1390 (superscored)
Johns Hopkins University: 1390 (superscored)
University of Michigan: 1320 (not superscored)
Michigan State University: 1130 (not superscored)</p>

<p>Keep in mind that superscoring adds some points to the ranges and averages. Probably not enough to account for the 100 point difference between Michigan and Brown and Chicago, but enough to make a difference. That probably explains why the ACT scores (which aren’t superscored) are much closer. Furthermore, unlike Brown and Chicago, where 100% of students belong to colleges of Arts and Sciences or Engineering, at Michigan, many students (roughly 15%-20%) belong to the colleges of Art, Kinesiology, Music and Nursing…all of which have their own admissions prossess and criteria. ACT/SAT scores are not an important part of the admissions process in those colleges. </p>

<p>So again jec, no disrespect intended toward MSU (I actually respect MSU a great deal and often find myself defending it on CC), but in terms of admissions standards, Michigan is indeed one of the 20 most selective universities in the US…MSU is probably not among the top 100 in that regard.</p>

<p><a href=“Office of Institutional Research | Brown University”>Office of Institutional Research | Brown University;

<p><a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000395.pdf[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000395.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[U-CAN:&lt;/a&gt; Johns Hopkins University](<a href=“ucan-network.org”>ucan-network.org)</p>

<p>[Common</a> Data Set - September 2007](<a href=“http://opbweb.opb.msu.edu/docs/CommonDataSet/2007/Default.htm]Common”>http://opbweb.opb.msu.edu/docs/CommonDataSet/2007/Default.htm)</p>

<p>[University</a> of Chicago College Admissions | Incoming Class Profile](<a href=“http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/admissions/classprofile.shtml]University”>http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/admissions/classprofile.shtml)</p>

<p><a href=“Office of Budget and Planning”>Office of Budget and Planning;

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<p>Not quite CCRunner. For some reason, Michigan put the SAT range of admitted students, not of enrolled students. For everything else, the stats were those of enrolled students. This year, Michigan will rectify that oversight. The mid 50% SAT range is 1220-1420, which is pretty impresive given that those aren’t superscored and that Michigan isn’t entirely Arts and Science or Engineering.</p>

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<p>Yeah…I realized that. Hence, I deleted it.</p>