Too Early to Begin Process?

College Majors Music Majors
1

<p>My D has just completed her freshman year of HS. She has been playing flute since 4th grade, private lessons on flute and piano for 3 years, and has recently begun playing piccolo. She is also very active in her school’s music department (Marching Band, Symphonic Band, Volunteer for Summer Music Camp, etc) and has said she would like to major in Music Ed. </p>

<p>Is it too early to begin creating a list of schools, gathering information, and doing some college visits? Is it also too early to be making class decisions for Junior/Senior HS years (e.g. 3rd year of language vs. Music Theory Class, 4th year of History vs. Additional Music Classes)?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

2

<p>Never too early! You’ll be glad you started now instead of 12 months from now.</p>

<p>Just my $0.02 on Music Ed major. From a “cost/benefit” perspective, your in-state schools with Music Ed programs are a far better value than a private school. Unless you can handle the expense, paying $60 - 80K for a Music Ed degree is a whole lot better than prices that range from $120 - $200K at private schools, especially if you’ll need to take out loans. A person saddled with a large student loan debt will have a horrible time in the future trying to pay down this debt on a teacher’s salary.</p>

3

<p>In addition to the good advice Imperial Zeppelin gives regards state u’s/colleges being the more cost effective than privates, state programs for the most part are geared to teaching to meeting the state standards for public school teaching certification with that state. If your goal is to teach outside the borders of your resident state, or you can get enough merit aid through a private, it might make sense to consider some of the private schools with good national music ed reputations.</p>

<p>Additionally, regarding future HS classes: it would not hurt to have music theory, but most undergrad music programs will not give you college credit for a 4 or 5 on the AP test. In most cases, there will be a theory test (for placement only) at somepoint during the admission process; a knowledge of theory may aid in gaining entry to a higher level beginning theory course.</p>

<p>The language and academic requirements should be balanced so that you (a) meet the minimum to fulfill hs graduation requirements, (b) meet the minimum for most colleges (for languages, off the top of my head, it’s usually 3 years), or (c) if it’s an AP class in a favorite subject and you’re confident of a 4 or 5, then it’s worth taking as it may result in colleges accepting the credit towards degree completion.</p>

<p>Some state teaching certifications (and thus mu ed college programs) require you have a college level US history, freshman type english, a basic math, science, and health course, and these will not be waived as degree requirements even if the institution accepts a high AP score for college credit
towards these electives.</p>

<p>Academics tend to hold a higher weight in a straight music ed application than they do for a straight performance major, but this can be very school specific… it pays to do your homework here.</p>

<p>Most, but not all, music ed programs will require an audition to demonstrate proficiency on an instrument or voice, depending on your concentration. While the level is not at the standard of an audition for a performance degree, it is still an important consideration and not to be overlooked.</p>

<p>Some other points to think about are programs with good support/career placement offices and a track record of placing graduates, and the benefits of going to a college with a String <a href=“http://www.stringprojects.org/[/url]”>http://www.stringprojects.org/&lt;/a&gt; or Band Project program.</p>

4

<p>Part of what Imperial Zep says is true. However, DS got scholarships to both Duquesne and the Hartt School that brought the cost of attendance to within dollars of the cost of our flagship University. Both schools have excellent music education departments. DS was a performance major, but the scholarship money was there. I will say, regarding certification…it is easiest to get teacher certification in the same state where you attend college. So if you want to work in your home state…go to college there.</p>

5

<p>There’s a bit more general info here: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=337205[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=337205&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

6

<p>My DD puts us in exactly the same timeframe as you, except that she is vocal performance … and also, SHE wants to major in vocal performance, while WE have told her to work on her music ed degree at the same time. Yet, while she is amenable to that approach, we also want a combination that will give her “best odds” of a performing career. </p>

<p>I don’t think we are starting too early. Even if you spend a lot of time researching options, you will probably come up with at least 20 schools that you will want to start visiting. </p>

<p>If your daughter’s preference is music ed, heed ImperialZeppelin’s advice.</p>

7

<p>Thank you for the information. My D has a list of about 20-30 schools, based on information from friends in her HS music department. It does include some of the NJ state schools. The information on the strings project will come in handy. I did a quick check and several of the schools on her initial list.</p>

8

<p>One thing folks should understand…a degree in music education has a TON of required courses. The music ed courses, performance requirements (most music ed majors must still be in an ensemble), private instrument instruction, studio class, and all of the other required music courses (theory, history) AND the requirements to meet a music education certification. This includes student teaching and in many cases some kind of practicum or observation in the schools before senior year of college. If a student REALLY intends to perform, the requirements of a music education college curriculum will be very demanding and may not allow for this as much as liked. In addition, the semester the student does their student teaching, they will not have time for anything else. Students I know who pursued combined music ed/performance degrees took five years to do so. However, I also know students who did their undergrad in performance and a masters in music education. Or…others who did the music ed undergrad and performance as grads. Personally, I think it is hard to fulfill both of these degree requirements at the same time.</p>

9

<p>I agree with thumper completely about the abundance of requirements coupled with the rigors of meeting studio instruction and performing organization obligations. There is very little room for free time or an elective or two of choice. Double majors (performance/mus ed) tend to have full credit loads, often to the max allowed by the school without overload charges for all semesters except the semester with assigned student teaching.</p>

<p>The attrition rate tends to be high, as students find their real passion between performing or teaching during their college career. Others simply burn out.</p>

<p>One way to avoid some of this is to try and get a summer course or three in the non-major elective area if at all possible. Unfortunately, this adds expenses and may limit summer performing or employment.</p>

<p>Besides the schools that offer the dual performance/ed major, there are also a few that have a five year bachelor/masters music ed program.</p>

10

<p>amen to what Thumper said
D’s friends who tried this route ultimately had to make a choice :1 to music ed, 1 to performance-piano and 1 made a turn around into music therapy( took 5 years to make up missing reqs but she’s so happy now).</p>

11

<p>We are going into the process knowing that the degree program we want for our daughter (vocal performance/music ed) is a minimum 5 years. Based on the path my life has taken, I think it’s smart to get as much education under one’s belt while life circumstances permit it, and while one is still in a “school mode.” </p>

<p>My husband and I both have high hopes for DD to have a career in vocal performance, and we do want to place our daughter in a program that gives her the best shot at being her generation’s Beverly Sills. But us and how many other thousands of parents? So we don’t consider it “jinxing” her chances to ask her to work to have an ed degree in her back pocket.
My POV is even if it turns out DD does not complete her requirements to get the music ed degree … the more she gets done now (well, 4 years from now, LOL) , the farther ahead she’ll be when she needs to go back and complete her coursework. </p>

<p>But we’ll be open to what the programs recommend.</p>

12

<p>For vocalists, the desire to study music ed along with performance should be discussed with the teachers you are interested in before requesting a place in their studios. Both of my D’s teachers (D a rising senior) do not allow students in their studios to pursue performance and education simultaneously. As far as they are concerned ----that is what grad school is for. She was also informed as a freshman that her sizable merit scholarship in vocal performance precluded her from focusing on anything else but performance. Im sure that this is not the case everywhere, but be cautious.</p>

13

<p>That is good info to be entering the process with. We’ll be sure to keep it in mind. I hope to not sound defeatist as we start touring schools and meeting with professors. Is there a way to broach the subject without prejudicing a professor against my daughter?</p>

14

<p>Be forthright and honest, they understand the concerns of a parent for their daughters future. They know that this is a long haul for a female vocalist. It takes a loooong time for that voice to develope. My D began her university journey as a light lyric soprano. She has changed her fach and therefore her repetoire 3 times, now shes a dramatic mezzo and will probably develope into a dramatic soprano. The changes and required learning of new music is one of those things that takes up so much time, reason enough to focus on performance only.</p>

15

<p>One of my daughter’s double bass teachers, who did not bat an eye at the prospect of a double degree program with math or physics, also discouraged her from considering a music ed program as a backup plan. Apart from the practical difficulties already mentioned, he believed that teachers should not approach their profession as a consolation prize. He had stories of previous students who wound up hating their teaching jobs because they could not deal with the non-musical aspects of the job. He suggested that she interview a couple of music teachers on her own and then ask herself if that was really what she wanted to do with her life.</p>

16

<p>BassDad:</p>

<p>Very interesting insight from that bass teacher. D was “advised” by multiple people to do both performance and music ed, as a “hedge,” but said to me, “Dad, my heart really wouldn’t be in teaching HS or Middle School kids music. If I change my mind in the future, I’ll change my major.”</p>

17

<p>My son ended up dropping the ed portion of his performance/ed double, and he actually had only one semester (student teaching) after the semester just finished. He was 10 semesters into the program, but wanted to get out this May with just the performance.</p>

<p>While I did nothing to persuade him either way, it was a srtrange decision as he’s now has to defer grad school for performance because of the timing; he made this decision in March, too late for any applications.</p>

<p>He loves teaching, but has no strong desire to teach within the public school system. </p>

<p>My feeling is that he is a performer at heart, and may have been a bit burnt out by the length of the program.</p>

18

<p>All good experiences to hear about; with “angles” I never would have even thought would be issues.</p>

<p>While we are the ones suggesting the performance/music ed, my daughter CAN see herself teaching at some point. Her thinking is “I want to become a chorus teacher so no other talented middle school girl has to put up with what I put up with.”</p>

<p>I am hoping this Diva mentality is a positive indocator of a successful operatic career!</p>

19

<p>I don’t think it is too early. We started visiting schools late Sophomore year, and have a fully narrowed list by now (end of junior year). Starting early meant that S could think carefully about summer programs, and begin working on repertoire early. I have no idea how busy kids manage to prepare their repertoire if they don’t start until summer or fall of senior year.</p>

20

<p>We followed the same schedule as Allmusic and son, with the first school visit over spring break of sophomore year and the final short list completed by the end of Junior year. Not only did that give my daughter plenty of time to work on audition rep, it also allowed her to request teacher recommendations at the end of junior year before summer break started. The people writing the letters appreciated getting the requests that early. She also had all summer to work on her essays. With all the musical things she had going on in senior year, we were very glad that she had started early.</p>