<p>Shouldn’t the list of “prestigious” universities be the list of the most selective? I don’t see any other way to define prestige than admission rates.</p>
<p>Ex:
<p>So if I told you I went to Cooper Union you’d be awestruck?</p>
<p>onecircuit,</p>
<p>Please go back and look at my original post. I still stand by it. You and monster were quick to be rude with your posts, for what reason, I do not know. I did not trash Princeton. I simply stated the Cornell’s engineering program is a better choice(quality and breadth). My statement was in response to a school’s prestige. In my view it is more important to apply to school in which your major is strong. I believe those familiar with both undergraduate programs will agree that Cornell has a better program. I gather you disagree…</p>
<p><a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate[/url]”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate</a></p>
<p>Put away your machine gun cowboy…:)</p>
<p>link for undergraduate engineering ranking…</p>
<p>[Best</a> Undergraduate Engineering Programs | Rankings | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate)</p>
<p>dd1993, why wouldn’t I be?</p>
<p>smileygerl, maybe you can’t see it now because I think there’s something wrong with the USNews website but on the very rankings that you have shared Princeton comes immediately after Cornell (of course, since Cornell is tied with two other schools, Princeton is considered 3 spots behind Cornell when it comes to engineering, but I’d love to see you argue a significance in that discrepancy). You chose a very poor analogy from the get-go and it’s pretty amusing to see you stick to your guns on this one when you’d be much better off revising your analogy! I’m not disagreeing that Cornell is a phenomenal school for engineering, but you could have illustrated that through comparison with a school that is actually weak at engineering.</p>
<p>When I viewed the graduate rankings Cornell was 8th and Princeton was 17th. The undergraduate rankings listed Cornell ahead of princeton by several slots. Bottom line…the engineering program at Cornell is better in quality and breadth than Princeton. You are entitled to your opinion…and I will not berate you for it.:)</p>
<p>Look at Counselor rankings. Students are most influenced by what their counselors(adults) believe.</p>
<p>Ivy
Tier 1 (4.9)- Harvard, Yale, Princeton
Tier 2 (4.8 - 4.7)- Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth
Tier 3 (4.6) - UPenn (This shouldn’t be a surprise because its confused with Penn State)</p>
<p>Non-Ivy
Tier 1 (4.9) - Stanford, MIT
Tier 2 (4.8 - 4.7) - Duke, JHU, Georgetown
Tier 3 (4.6) - Caltech, Northwestern, CMU, Berkeley, Notre Dame</p>
<p>I came up with a non-biased list. Sue me!
<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre…hool-counselor%5B/url%5D”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre…hool-counselor</a></p>
<p>I picked 4.6 as the cutoff because that’s where the lowest ranked Ivy resides.</p>
<p>I think I win.</p>
<p>MrPrince, although the High School Counselors rating is certainly valid, it is not without fault. There is no perfect system. For instance, the University of Chicago receives a relatively low score according to the Counselors.</p>
<p>Most high school teachers are ignorant or outdated, that is basically the most subject and stupid ranking anyone could use</p>
<p>^How? So the opinions of all the people on this forum aren’t subjective? I’m highly convinced that students believe in the opinions of elders or counselors in this case. Mind you, this counselor rankings comes from the top 100 high schools in America. That includes Exeter, Andover, etc. </p>
<p>@greenexcess: You were taught by these “ignorant” high school teachers. Don’t speak ill of those who have educated you. </p>
<p>@Alexandre: There is no perfect system, I agree. But then again, when has there ever been a perfect system? I prefer to make use of what we best have. So I find that counselor rankings are best representative of undergrad/high school prestige.</p>
<p>sorry to interrupt guys but how to you start a thread?</p>
<p>Go to one of the forums listed on the left and then click “start new thread” which shows up just above the list of postings.</p>
<p>“I prefer to make use of what we best have. So I find that counselor rankings are best representative of undergrad/high school prestige.”</p>
<p>I agree that the counselor rating is a pretty accurate measure of prestige among high school students. But is that sort of prestige important? Does it matter at all? You have access to the PA, why not use that? Would you not agree that the opinion of university presidents is more important since it is a reflection of how graduate schools will perceive applicants to their programs? Or employer ratings of universities, although there hasn’t been such a survey conducted for undergraduate institutions. High school counselors are an insular group, and their opinion can only influence high school students. I am not sure their opinion should be used the standard of prestige.</p>
<p>^Well, this is a high school targeted website for the most part isn’t it? But I agree with your points.
However, I’m somewhat unfamiliar with PA scores since it’s unreleased to the public. Would you mind posting them on here?
I’m not too sure whether the opinions of other university presidents should be taken so literally because some/many(?) tend to promote their own university and put down rival ones. Such immature behavior isn’t too surprising however.
[Adams</a> sees UGA among 5 best | Uganews | OnlineAthens.com](<a href=“http://onlineathens.com/stories/070209/uga_458010816.shtml]Adams”>http://onlineathens.com/stories/070209/uga_458010816.shtml)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There is a certain heavy bias involved anyway. Duke is considered the premier #1 southern university. I can imagine why UGA president of a southern university would want to put it down so low. I wouldn’t be surprised to know that Yale president would rank Harvard a bit lower than its peers.
But there is little to no bias in counselor rankings, is there? </p>
<p>I’m also not too sure about employer ratings. Can you please post them here? Isn’t it too silly for an employer judge the ability of a employee based on the college he has attended? So if a group of UCLA grads did a terrible job at Morgan Stanley, will UCLA get a lower employer rating? That doesn’t make sense…and also, wouldn’t public schools with higher student bodies end up with a huge advantage since they send their grads to diverse workforces?</p>
<p>There’s too much of a variability here, Alex. I’m sure that worrying about the prestige of a university is only important among the high school/undergrad kids anyway. The older you get, you realize its your own effort.</p>
<p>I agree with your post MrPrince, but there is such a thing as prestige. It is not important to most of us, but some people seek it and I am not sure it is the opinion of teenagers they had in mind. Those who care about prestige will want to know what society’s upper echelons and elite think. </p>
<p>With regards to the PA, you are going to have biases, such as a university president giving her/his own university a rating of 5/5. But the USNWR adjusts for that by eliminating outliers from the PA rating. So the University of Georgia president may have given his own university a rating of 5, but that is probably the only 5 his institution received and as such, it will be filtered out as a result. The PA, flawed as it may be, is not the opinion of one president or that of a handful of related presidents. It is the collective and averaged opinion of hundreds of presidents. The outcome may not be an accurate representation or ranking of the best universities, but it is an accurate representation of the most highly regarded university within the academic community. Is that important? Only if one wishes to apply to graduate school.</p>
<p>Employer opinion is also important but has never been accurately captured when it comes to undergraduate institutions. Chances are, such a rating would be very regional. I personally know that nobody will hire mid-senior level employees based primarily on where they went to college or senior level employees based on where they well to college or graduate school. In fact, the most important criteria when recruiting mid-senior level employees and executives are proven professional success and cultural fit with an organization. Cultural fit includes experience within the industry, attitude, behavioral traits, ec…</p>
<p>However, for those who care about prestige, one’s alma matter will be taken into consideration. And for entry-level positions, where one goes to college certainly plays a larger role. A survey of Fortune 500 CEOs, COOs, CFOs and heads of HR would certainly be interesting, even if it is flawed.</p>
<p>Bottom line, I would assume that people who care about prestige do not care much about what 16-25 year olds or high school counselors think. Their opinion will certainly mimic each other’s and will probably be strangely related to the USNWR. But those who care about prestige are more concerned with what society’s more influential elements (those in a position to have an impact on one’s life) may think and believe. Those elements are more likely to be swayed by universities that play a role in “their world”.</p>
<p>
It follows then, that we should give equal credit to the other guidance counselors’ ranking:</p>
<p>"Best Undergraduate Teaching </p>
<p>We asked guidance counselors from America’s Best High Schools in spring 2010 to tell us which national universities they think offer the best undergraduate education to their students.</p>
<h1>1 Dartmouth College</h1>
<h1>2 Miami University–Oxford</h1>
<h1>2 Princeton University</h1>
<h1>4 University of Notre Dame</h1>
<h1>5 College of William and Mary</h1>
<h1>6 Brown University</h1>
<h1>6 University of California–Berkeley</h1>
<h1>8 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor</h1>
<h1>8 University of Virginia</h1>
<h1>10 Stanford University</h1>
<h1>10 Yale University"</h1>
<p>^You may do whatever you wish. Those rankings are not the subject of this matter.</p>
<p>@Alex: I agree with most of your points. But I must say that I’ve never heard college and prestige mentioned together much by anyone more or less than ages 16 - 25. I suppose academic prestige (which is what is ultimately important) is best represented by PA scores (which you still haven’t showed me). General prestige which acknowledges good academics and research and the sort are better represented by these counselor rankings. Anyway, you may feel different. </p>
<p>I can’t help but wonder about your last paragraph. :)</p>
<p>Notre Dame</p>