top 15 most prestigious universities

Alexandre · February 13, 2009, 12:14pm

The_prestige, I have no issue with looking at the per-capita numbers, but in the case of schools like Michigan, Northwestern and Cornell, you should only take the College of Arts and Sciences into account. At most elite universities, Arts and Sciences account for 90% of the undergraduate student population. At Cornell, Michigan and Northwestern (along with a few others, they account for 40%-60% of undergraduate students. At Michigan, 16,000/25,000 belong to LSA. The remaining 9,000 students belong to Architecture, Business, Engineering, Music, Nursing and Pharmacy to name a few. Of course, even then, schools like Harvard, Yale and Brown would have a great number of fulbright scholars on a per capita basis, but I am willing to bet that among research universities, Michigan is among the top 10 or top 15 in the production of Fulbright winners on a per capita basis.

SarahsDad · February 13, 2009, 4:20pm

A few points about Fulbrights - First, the total numbers tallied above include both graduate and undergraduate awards, so for instance Yale in 2007 had 27 awards, but 10 of those were for graduate students. While this may be OK to help determine the “prestige” of a university, it may not be pertinent to those applying to college to know their graduate school is successful at obtaining Fulbrights.

Second, per capita numbers are absoulutely important.

I posted this earlier: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/584437-fulbright-report-results-2008-a.html?highlight=pomona+fulbright#post1061202216[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/584437-fulbright-report-results-2008-a.html?highlight=pomona+fulbright#post1061202216</a>

“Should UMich be ranked first with 31 awards and an undergraduate student body of 26,000, or Pitzer, with 11 awards and a student body of 1,000?”

LACs - Ranked by Total Fulbright Awards

Pomona 16 (does not include one award which was declined)
Smith 15
Swarthmore 12
Pitzer 11
Williams 10
Amherst 9
Vassar 9
Wellesley 9

Ranked by Awards per 1000 students (Top 6 LACs and Top 5 Univ only):

Pitzer 11.5
Pomona 10.3
Swarthmore 8.1
Smith 5.8
Williams 5.1
Yale 4.9
Kenyon 4.8
Harvard 4.4
Northwestern 3.0
UMich 1.23
UCBerkeley 1.0

Finally, Fulbrights are just one small slice of information to help guide college plans - doesn’t make sense to overstate their importance…

IBclass06 · February 13, 2009, 5:48pm

I think a much better comparison would be comparing the success rate of the different colleges. After all, the important thing is not so much how many Fulbrights are produced as it is how successful those who apply for the Fulbright are. This puts Michigan and Columbia on roughly the same level.

[Top</a> Producers of Fulbright Awards for U.S. Students by Type of Institution, 2008-9](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/weekly/v55/i09/09a02301.htm]Top”>http://chronicle.com/weekly/v55/i09/09a02301.htm)

the_prestige · February 13, 2009, 9:11pm

ewho,

official NMS data can be found on their website:
[National</a> Merit Scholarship Corporation](<a href=“http://www.nationalmerit.org/]National”>http://www.nationalmerit.org/)

IBclass06,

seems my subscription to The Chronicle of Higher Education has run out – care to post the information?

IBclass06 · February 13, 2009, 9:20pm

Try these links instead.

2008-2009
Research universities: <a href=“US Fulbright Program - Home Page”>US Fulbright Program - Home Page;
Master’s universities: <a href=“US Fulbright Program - Home Page”>US Fulbright Program - Home Page;
LACs: <a href=“US Fulbright Program - Home Page”>US Fulbright Program - Home Page;

2007-2008
Research universities: <a href=“US Fulbright Program - Home Page”>US Fulbright Program - Home Page;
Master’s universities: <a href=“US Fulbright Program - Home Page”>US Fulbright Program - Home Page;
LACs: <a href=“US Fulbright Program - Home Page”>US Fulbright Program - Home Page;

the_prestige · February 13, 2009, 9:34pm

thanks for posting that

the_prestige · February 14, 2009, 3:19am

would be great to get the same kind of full historical data for Rhodes as well.

theendusputrid · February 14, 2009, 10:56pm

who cares about rhodes scholars?

just because someone is a rhodes scholar doesn’t mean he got a high sat score even perfect grades, both of which are more impressive.

the_prestige · February 15, 2009, 1:41am

Please continue believing that the Rhodes scholarship is not impressive. Congratulations.

Alexandre · February 15, 2009, 2:08am

The Rhodes scholarship is the rarest and most prestigious award given to students. Unfortunately, it is so rare that one cannot draw any conclusions based on it. Whether a school has produced 15 or 30 or 45 or 60 Rhodes scholards over the last 100 years isn’t very telling. Yes, HYP have produced over 100 Rhodes scholards. But once you get past that, most elites have produced between 15 and 60. That may seem significant, but when you factor in the fact that those 15-60 are taken from a pool of over 100,000+ students who graduated from each of those institutions over the last 100 years, it ceases to be a significant indicator of quality. Whether 0.006% or 0.0003% of a universities alums have won the Rhodes schoolarship isn’t going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

the_prestige · February 15, 2009, 3:06am

I don’t disagree with anything that you’ve written, but let’s get down to brass tacks. For those “that matter” as we always refer to, in other words, future employers as an example, don’t you believe that having a Rhodes Scholarship on your resume is just about as an impressive “feather in your cap” as any recent college graduate is going to be able to put down?

Or as the previous poster states, “just because someone is a rhodes scholar doesn’t mean he got a high sat score even perfect grades, both of which are more impressive.”

In other words Alex, as a corporate recruiter at a top tier global firm, do you even care about SATs if someone has been qualified enough to have won a Rhodes Scholarship? Can’t we assume that this person has had pretty decent grades (as a given) and more importantly has something even more impressive to offer which isn’t readily discernible from a transcript?

Alexandre · February 15, 2009, 5:36am

The Rhodes Scholraship would impress anybody. Winners of the award tend to be perfectionists and very active. And as an HR professional, I can say with a great deal of confidence that SATs simply don’t matter. Firms that ask for it do so do weed out candidates, not as a measure of ability. I have never asked for SAT scores and I will never ask for SAT scores.

theendusputrid · February 15, 2009, 11:46am

You have to be kidding me. Myron Rolle wins a Rhodes scholar with a 3.75 gpa and 1970 SAT ([Myron</a> Rolle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myron_Rolle]Myron”>Myron Rolle - Wikipedia), <a href=“Swamp247 - Florida Gators Football & Recruiting)?%5B/url%5D”>Swamp247 - Florida Gators Football & Recruiting)?</a> At Florida State?! Florida State has a 42 percent acceptance rate, an average sat score of 1265, and an average act score of 28; Myron was NOT going against top-flight competition. I’m sorry, the fact that Myron was chosen over the millions of other students who are far more intelligent, hardowrking, and academically qualified is ridiculous.

Myron is not even close to being the smartest player in college football today. Look at this list <a href=“http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/documents/08CoSIDAAAA(FB).pdf[/url]”>http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/documents/08CoSIDAAAA(FB).pdf</a> and you will see that there are many dozens of players who are far more acadmeically qualified than Myron. A notable is James Casey, with a 3.84 GPA at RICE (a school wtih top-flight competition).

Seriously, the fact that MYron was chosen to e a Rhodes scholar over the millions of acadmeically superior nonathletes and may dozens of academically superior athletes proves that having a Rhodes Scholarship is and should not be very prestigious because the most qualified candidates are not always chosen, and it does not emphasize scholastic achievement nearly enough. I am much more impressed by someone with a 4.0
at Harvard or Caltech than someone with a 3.8 at BYU with a Rhodes Scholarship. GPA measures hard work and ability to accomplish tasks relating to your job; having a 3.9+ GPA (on a 4.0 scale) shows that you are a hard and dilligent worker and should be a much better addition to your resume than a Rhodes Scholarship.

Hope2getrice · February 15, 2009, 12:41pm

give me a break with the looking down on that florida state student.
Just because he’s not YOUR image of perfection, doesn’t mean he didn’t do something unique to catch the eyes of the committee.
There are all types of talents and amazing people in this world who don’t necessarily have to go to schools like Caltech, Harvard, etc, but who will still turn out to be some of the best in their fields or the best in the world even.
That you can be so ignorant as to look at this kid only through stats and school prejudices instead of saying “wow, he must 've been really unique or brilliant!” further shows how steeped in ignorance you truly are.

the_prestige · February 15, 2009, 7:55pm

You’re the best.

RML · February 18, 2009, 2:29am

[College</a> Rankings](<a href=“http://www.toptiered.com/college-rankings.html]College”>http://www.toptiered.com/college-rankings.html)

Academic Peer Assessment; Employer Assessment (Upper Level Management); Graduate and
Professional School Admissions Officer Assessment; Quality of Student Body by SAT / SAT II; Quality of
Student Body by GPA / Class Rank; Resources / Expenditure Per Student; Graduate /Professional
School Attendance; Wage and Employment; Number of Applications / Desirability of School

<ol>
<li> Yale</li>
<li> Princeton</li>
<li> Harvard</li>
<li> Williams</li>
<li> Amherst</li>
<li> Stanford</li>
<li> Massachusetts Inst. of Technology</li>
<li> California Inst. of Technology</li>
<li> Columbia</li>
<li> Penn</li>
<li> Chicago</li>
<li> Northwestern</li>
<li> Cornell</li>
<li> Swarthmore</li>
<li> Johns Hopkins</li>
<li> Brown</li>
<li> UC Berkeley</li>
<li> Duke</li>
<li> NYU</li>
<li> Michigan</li>
<li> University of Virginia</li>
<li> Wellesley</li>
<li> Dartmouth</li>
<li> Pomona</li>
<li> Smith</li>
<li> Univ. of Southern California</li>
<li> Barnard</li>
<li> UCLA</li>
<li> Vasser</li>
<li> Wesleyan</li>
<li> Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li> Emory</li>
<li> Bowdoin</li>
<li> Rice</li>
<li> Notre Dame</li>
<li> Cooper Union</li>
<li> Harverford</li>
<li> Scripps</li>
<li> Smith</li>
<li> Bryn Mawr</li>
<li> Vanderbilt</li>
<li> Bates</li>
<li> Harvey Mudd</li>
<li> Georgetown</li>
<li> Middlebury</li>
<li> University of North Carolina</li>
<li> Tufts</li>
<li> Tulane</li>
<li> William and Mary</li>
<li> U.S. Naval Academy</li>
</ol>

[“The</a> Washington Monthly College Rankings” by The Editors](<a href=“http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html#byline]"The”>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html#byline)

<ol>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MA) 7</li>
<li>University of California, Berkeley* (CA) 20</li>
<li>Pennsylvania State University, University Park* ¶ 48</li>
<li>University of California, Los Angeles* (CA) 25</li>
<li>Texas A&M University* (TX) 60</li>
<li>University of California, San Diego* (CA) 32</li>
<li>Stanford University (CA) 5</li>
<li>Cornell University (NY) 13</li>
<li>South Carolina State University* (SC) </li>
<li>University of California, Davis (CA) 48</li>
<li>University of Wisconsin, Madison (WI) - 34</li>
<li>Yale University (CT) � 3</li>
<li>University of Notre Dame (IN) - 18</li>
<li>University of Chicago (IL) - 15</li>
<li>University of Washington* (WA) - 45</li>
<li>University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign* (IL) - 42</li>
<li>University of Texas, Austin* (TX) - 52</li>
<li>University of Michigan, Ann Arbor* (MI) - 25</li>
<li>College of William and Mary (VA)* - 31</li>
<li>University of Virginia* (VA) - 23</li>
<li>University of Rochester (NY) - 34</li>
<li>University of California, Riverside* (CA) - 85</li>
<li>Duke University (NC) - 5</li>
<li>Alabama A&M University* (AL) - </li>
<li>Case Western Reserve University (OH) - 37</li>
<li>Rice University (TX) - 17</li>
<li>Ohio State University, Columbus (OH) - 60</li>
<li>Harvard University (MA) - 1</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University (MD) - 13</li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania ¶ - 4</li>
<li>Georgetown University (DC) - 23</li>
<li>University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (NC) - 27</li>
<li>University of Southern California (SC) - 30</li>
<li>Brown University (RI) - 15</li>
<li>Dartmouth College (NH) - 9</li>
<li>Columbia University (NY) - 9</li>
<li>University of Florida* (FL) - 50</li>
<li>Iowa State University* (IA) - 85</li>
<li>University of Arizona* (AZ) - 97</li>
<li>Ohio University* (OH) - 60</li>
<li>Fordham University (NY) - 68</li>
<li>Northwestern University (IL) - 12</li>
<li>Princeton University (NJ) - 1</li>
<li>New Mexico State University* (NM) - </li>
<li>Washington University in St. Louis (WA) - 120</li>
<li>Jackson State University (MS) - </li>
<li>Vanderbilt University (TN) - 18</li>
<li>Utah State University (UT) - </li>
<li>Marquette University (WI) - 85</li>
<li>Michigan State University (MI) - 74</li>
<li>Virginia Tech (VA) - 78</li>
<li>Widener University ¶ - </li>
<li>Rutgers University, New Brunswick (NJ) - 60</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon University ¶ - 22</li>
<li>Wake Forest University (NC) - 27</li>
<li>Kent State University (OH) - </li>
<li>University of California, Santa Barbara (CA) - 45</li>
<li>Indiana University, Bloomington (IN) - 74</li>
<li>University of Iowa (IA) - 60</li>
<li>Boston University (MA) - 40</li>
<li>University of Oregon* (OR) - 115</li>
<li>Syracuse University (NY) - 50</li>
<li>Georgia Institute of Technology* (GA) - 37</li>
<li>New York University (NY) - 37</li>
<li>University of Idaho* (ID) </li>
<li>University of Pittsburgh ¶ - 58</li>
<li>University of Minnesota, Twin Cities (MN) - 74</li>
<li>University of California, Santa Cruz* (CA) - 68</li>
<li>George Washington University (DC) - 53</li>
<li>University of the Pacific (CA) - 104</li>
<li>Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY) </li>
<li>University of California, Irvine (CA) - 40</li>
<li>Brandeis University (MA) - 34</li>
<li>Tufts University (MA) - 27</li>
<li>Purdue University, West Lafayette (IN) - 60</li>
<li>University of Kentucky* (KY) - 120</li>
<li>Texas A&M University, Kingsville* (TX) </li>
<li>Pepperdine University (CA) - 55</li>
<li>University of Maryland, College Park (MD) - 55</li>
<li>University of New Mexico (NM) - </li>
<li>University of Montana (MT) - </li>
<li>Tulane University (LA) - 43</li>
<li>Auburn University (AL) - 85</li>
<li>University of Colorado, Boulder (CO) - 78</li>
<li>University of Missouri, Columbia (MO) - 85</li>
<li>Oklahoma State University* (OK) - *</li>
<li>Oregon State University (OR) - </li>
<li>Howard University (DC) - 93</li>
<li>University of Massachusetts, Amherst (MA) - 104</li>
<li>Arizona State University (AZ) - *</li>
<li>Loyola University Chicago (IL) - 115</li>
<li>University of Illinois, Chicago (IL) - *</li>
<li>Northern Arizona University (AZ) - </li>
<li>University of Delaware (DE) - 66</li>
<li>University of San Francisco (CA) - 115</li>
<li>Emory University (GA) � 20</li>
<li>University of San Diego (CA) - 32</li>
<li>University of Southern Mississippi (MI) - *</li>
<li>University of Wyoming (WY) - **</li>
<li>National-Louis University (IL) - **</li>
</ol>

<a href=“http://mup.asu.edu/research2007.pdf[/url]”>http://mup.asu.edu/research2007.pdf</a>

Top American Research Universities

Private Columbia University 9 0 535,424 17 453,188 10 5,937,814 7
Private Harvard University 9 0 447,196 25 395,906 14 28,915,706 1
Private Massachusetts Institute of Technology 9 0 580,742 12 457,235 9 8,368,066 5
Private Stanford University 9 0 714,897 7 574,675 3 14,084,676 3
Private University of Pennsylvania 9 0 654,982 9 465,284 7 5,313,268 9

Private Duke University 8 0 630,752 10 376,568 15 4,497,718 15
Public University of California - Berkeley 8 0 554,551 14 290,960 24 2,464,109 23
Public University of Michigan - Ann Arbor 8 0 808,887 2 554,516 4 5,652,262 8

Private Johns Hopkins University 7 2 1,443,792 1 1,277,292 1 2,350,749 24
Private Yale University 7 2 431,618 28 332,702 16 18,030,600 2
Public University of California - Los Angeles 7 1 785,625 4 469,889 6 1,912,071 28
Public University of Washington - Seattle 7 1 707,519 8 606,317 2 1,689,528 32
Public University of Wisconsin - Madison 7 1 798,099 3 477,582 5 1,639,015 33

Public University of Minnesota - Twin Cities 6 2 548,873 15 319,771 20 2,224,308 25
Private Washington University in St. Louis 6 2 531,846 18 400,699 13 4,684,737 14
Public University of California - San Francisco 6 1 754,444 5 438,988 11 1,157,829 50

Private Northwestern University 5 4 387,242 32 244,113 34 5,140,668 11
Private University of Chicago 5 3 293,970 49 245,679 32 4,867,003 13
Public University of California - San Diego 5 2 721,035 6 463,946 8 422,454 137
Public Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill 5 2 441,033 27 320,294 19 1,149,222 52
Private Princeton University 5 1 202,380 76 120,042 76 13,044,900 4

Private Cornell University 4 5 428,404 29 242,455 35 3,541,869 19
Private University of Southern California 4 5 445,036 26 330,126 17 3,065,935 21
Public Ohio State University - Columbus 4 4 608,923 11 294,053 22 1,996,839 27
Public Pennsylvania State Univ. - Univ. Park 4 3 563,188 13 322,712 18 978,611 61
Public University of Florida 4 3 530,734 19 231,699 38 996,245 60
Public Univ. of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign 4 3 499,711 22 289,985 25 864,080 69
Public University of Texas - Austin 4 3 410,981 31 254,529 30 6,268,407 6

Public University of Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh 3 5 510,943 21 420,281 12 1,802,859 29
Private Vanderbilt University 3 5 350,433 35 281,694 27 2,946,392 22
Private California Institute of Technology 3 4 265,364 57 249,371 31 1,580,922 35
Public Texas A&M University 3 4 479,735 23 212,923 42 5,192,104 10

Private Emory University 2 6 333,665 40 266,868 28 4,870,019 12
Public University of Arizona 2 5 530,233 20 292,811 23 466,652 128
Public University of Virginia 2 5 239,061 66 200,726 47 3,618,172 18
Private New York University 2 4 276,198 53 191,782 50 1,774,700 30
Public University of California - Davis 2 4 546,978 16 240,003 36 552,003 108
Private Tufts University 2 2 131,028 105 98,200 91 1,215,413 49
Private Baylor College of Medicine 2 1 458,694 24 300,638 21 1,059,393 56
Private Dartmouth College 2 1 179,094 86 122,329 73 3,092,100 20
Private Rice University 2 0 63,102 155 54,735 128 3,986,664 17
Public Purdue University - West Lafayette 1 6 364,986 34 150,351 62 1,493,554 36
Public University of Maryland - College Park 1 4 338,648 37 196,008 49 375,992 147
Public University of Colorado - Boulder 1 3 261,429 58 233,316 37 295,153 185
Private University of Notre Dame 1 3 71,266 149 51,072 134 4,436,624 16
Private Boston University 1 2 246,520 62 228,842 39 916,017 66
Private Brown University 1 2 138,262 102 90,857 100 2,166,633 26
Public Michigan State University 1 2 333,735 39 156,461 58 1,047,792 57
Private Rockefeller University 1 2 198,719 79 85,552 103 1,771,954 31
Public University of California - Santa Barbara 1 2 165,014 95 103,955 84 151,836 292
Public Univ. of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Ctr. 1 1 383,780 33 160,953 56 457,727 130

Viper247 · February 18, 2009, 3:37am

Overall prestige does not matter.

For an entrepreneur, the most prestigious school is Babson
For an architect, the most prestigious schools are Cornell, Syracuse and Cal Poly
For a film producer, the most prestigious schools are NYU/USC/UCLA

Barring unusual circumstances, a Harvard grad will never be hired over a Berkeley grad for an electrical engineering job.

the_prestige · February 18, 2009, 3:51am

RML,

1) The first ranking you posted is interesting – its the first time I’ve seen it but at first blush seems reasonable.

2) The second Washington Monthly ranking hits a rough patch – when you’ve got Penn State U. (no offense to the Nittany Lions) but no. 3 in the nation? Not even their football team is that good PLUS you’ve got Harvard ranked no. 28 and Princeton ranked no. 43 – uh – you’ve got a problem. There is no way that there are 42 undergrad programs BETTER than Princeton (University of Arizona for instance?).

3) Which leaves us with the third “research” ranking. Here is the criteria by which they came up with this ranking: Total Research, Federal Research, Endowment Assets, Annual Giving, National Academy Members, Faculty Awards, Doctorates Granted, Postdoctoral Appointees, and SAT/ACT range. Now, how many of those factors are really applicable / relevant to someone attending undergrad? Again the proof is in the pudding:

<ul>
<li>Princeton ranked no. 21 and then Dartmouth ranked no. 40 (with a number of schools such as Penn State – again!, University of Arizona, Ohio State U., Baylor College of Medicine ranked above it – wait a minute, Baylor College of Medicine?)</li>
<li>What is Baylor College of Medicine and University of California, San Francisco doing on a list that is supposedly an “undergrad” ranking? They don’t even have undergrad programs! Fail.</li>
<li>No way is this a relevant ranking for ranking undergrad programs.</li>
</ul>

RML · February 18, 2009, 4:01am

The prestige,

That is why I suggested that you take data that are only relevant for undergrad students. But by doing so, please do take into account that there are many, many students who are majoring, or are interested in physical science (Bio, Chem, Physics, geo), computer science, IT, and (the whole range of) engineering. Not everyone will employ in the banking and finance industry. That’s the very essence of my contention against USN’s. The survey kind of suggested that all undergrad are interested in one single criterion, which is quite flawed.

theendusputrid · March 1, 2009, 1:30am

No, if you are an architect and went to cornell, you will be on just as good footing as a Cornell grad.

top 15 most prestigious universities

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