<p>My son just declared himself as a computer science/applied math concentrator (major) at Brown. He will be devastated to learn that all his future job prospects have just died because some random CC poster placed NO through his college choice. Or perhaps not…</p>
<p>“NO student - I don’t care how smart, how gifted - should be restricting a search of “pie in the skies” to only top 20. You should look at the top 40 as a starting point.” I would look at that list but consider also that the OP’s daughter will likely have the opportunity to attend a UC at a reasonable cost. At some point the value added by some of those other schools, however one evaluates that, may not be worth the significant extra cost.</p>
<p>I remember trying to squeeze in some college drive-bys with my D during the summers between 8th-9th, 9th-10th, and even 10th-11th grades.</p>
<p>It was like pulling teeth to get her to look out the window. </p>
<p>I would argue that thinking about college choices is, in truth, pretty low on the priority list for most kids before 11th grade. And this is absolutely not to say that kids aren’t working hard or thinking ahead. They just understand that there’s a time for everything, and the logical time to look at/ consider colleges is in the 11th grade, when interests, strengths, grades, etc. are more solidified.</p>
<p>If the OP’s D is indeed as young as posters have mentioned… well, then, it’s time to move on to the posters with the REAL questions. </p>
<p>@californiaa - referring also to another thread, can you give a list of Asian universities that you think could be added to your list? We shouldn’t assume that all top 20 are American.</p>
<p>A random mix of tongue-in-cheek and other perceptions by another poster. :D</p>
<p>Princeton University
Great all around academics including engineering. However, perceived perceptions derived from its past as a proud bastion of establishment conservatism and favoritism towards boarding school/private school graduates and athletes still have some effect. However, that’s mostly in the past. </p>
<p>Main concerns now are perceptions of grade deflation, picking up preppy aesthetic/values and an odd patrician-sounding accent, and a need to exercise excessively due to the prevalence of eating clubs which provide delectable sustenance for Princeton undergrads. </p>
<p>They enjoy visiting NYC, though some may betray dismissive attitudes towards colleges in the area…including a Morningside Heights based one which borne us a Hamilton and one Violet institution in the village. </p>
<p>Harvard University
Great all around for the most part though its engineering school has not been rated very highly by older engineering/techie employers. </p>
<p>However, H has been initiating programs to increase the profile of DAS so it isn’t perceived as the "neglected stepchild of FAS as some HS classmates who were DAS students felt back in the '90s. </p>
<p>Contrary to popular stereotype, the prevailing campus culture is actually very down-to-earth and accommodating. Also, if one’s content with a B+ GPA or moreso, a gentleman’s C, one could have a very relaxing 4 years while needing to work hard for those As. They love clubbing it out on campus clubs/activities, at parties at various other area colleges(MIT & Wellesley are two favorite spots), and Boston. Quintessential clubbers…especially the Final ones.</p>
<p>Yale University</p>
<p>Strong in may fields, but engineering traditionally hasn’t been as strong. Alums have had mixed reviews of the campus though their residential college dining halls do have some colorful plates which undergrads collect on the down-low. </p>
<p>Sometimes, still living down their reputation as the school for a certain one lettered nicknamed president known for proudly stating he’s living proof even a C student can become president…though many Americans wished there were better examples. </p>
<p>Columbia University
NYC urban meet Ivy. Strong in many fields and engineering here’s among its jewels. Bureaucracy can be a bit of a pain for most as heard from countless alums/current students. </p>
<p>Students here not only have Columbia, but also NYC, especially northwest Manhattan as their campus. Many students tend to be extremely pre-professional and aspire to Wall Street type jobs…even engineering majors to the disgust of some SEAS profs and more hardcore SEAS classmates who regard them as “sell-outs”. </p>
<p>There’s a smidgen of disdain felt towards its upscale suburban counterpart in New Jersey, but the academic workload and endless activities in NYC means few are motivated enough to do more than write some occasional throwaway blurbs in the Spectator and the Bwog. </p>
<p>While there are some parties, most who really want to party tend to go downtown to an area occupied by a Violet institution or if more hipster inclined, to Williamsburg. </p>
<p>Massachusetts Institute of Technology</p>
<p>One of the ultimate institutions for STEM…and many non-STEM fields like Philosophy, Linguistics, Poli-sci, etc. Workload tends to be intense for most though contrary to some popular stereotypes, they’re not quiet nerdy shut-ins. </p>
<p>Quite the opposite considering they throw some of the best college parties in the Boston area which draws students from all over the Boston area…including Harvard and do it more like the Beastie Boys in the “Fight for your right to party” video. </p>
<p>If you’re a female student, the ratio is in your favor though YMMV due to individual circumstances and due to the fact MIT students also have access to Wellesley through the cross-registration/shuttle bus arrangement between them. </p>
<p>University of Pennsylvania - (MAY BE)???</p>
<p>They really seemed to be obsessed with the Imperial Russian national anthem, very social, and undergrad alums have had mixed reviews of the undergrad experience whereas grad alums loved it. </p>
<p>While there are concerns about high crime in the neighborhood, it seems fine during the day/early evening hours to this observer. </p>
<p>California Institute of Technology</p>
<p>Hardcore intensive STEM institution with less room for non-STEM fields than other institutions including MIT. A factor in why its alums/graduates feel they have much more nerd cred than their counterparts in Palo Alto, Berkeley, Pittsburgh or Cambridge. </p>
<p>If one’s a female student, the ratio is also favorable though the intense workload can get in the way. </p>
<p>Also, at least one Caltech alum is fed up with folks playing “Little Old Lady From Pasadena” and asking him whether he’s encountered her. </p>
<p>Dartmouth College</p>
<p>LAC-centered, highly preppy, and perceived as more conservative than many other Ivies. Popular among athletes and those with outdoorsy pastimes. Food is said to be so good that freshman 15+ is likely despite not having eating clubs. </p>
<p>University of California–Berkeley - YES!</p>
<p>Great well-rounded academic institution with departmental strengths on par with the best of the elite private universities. Has a beautiful verdant campus though its stereotype as having a radical hippie campus culture is a thing of the past due to increasing pre-professionalism.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it’s location is great if one’s a major fan of punk/hardcore/pop-punk as many underground and up & coming bands come from here. Just pop by and enjoy getting rocked out and having one’s eardrums rattled. Excessive partaking of being in this musical scene can be detrimental to one’s GPA if one’s not too careful, though. :)</p>
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<p>Also, about 2/3 of eligible students (1/2 of all students; frosh are not eligible) there join fraternities and sororities.</p>
<p>"@californiaa - referring also to another thread, can you give a list of Asian universities that you think could be added to your list? We shouldn’t assume that all top 20 are American."</p>
<p>Chinese possibilities:
Beijing University
Qinghua (or Tsinghua) University
Fudan University
Tongji University
Nankai University
Zhejiang University</p>
<p>OP,
What is career path? Major is NOT the only factor to consider. What is an ultimate goal? Find employment - what industry? Go to Grad. school - what kind?
“Is this a joke thread?” - Sounds like. </p>
<p>Oh good lord, cobrat and ucb, the OP doesn’t need to get into the finer points of Greek and preppy and eating club discussions of top 20 schools with teeny-tiny acceptance rates. Nor does she need all of your stereotypes. </p>
<p>She needs to get a broader picture of the American educational landscape and get OFF a fixation with a tiny number of schools that “she’s heard of”, while crossing off other equally fine ones because “she hasn’t heard of them.” She needs expansive thinking, not reasons to cut. </p>
<p>Save the discussions about the eating clubs and whatever until the kid’s actually accepted at all these places and needs to cut. </p>
<p>There are plenty of reasons to question the OP, but I was a bit amused by the “what does your daughter want?” question. 33 years ago my parents told me where I was going for college. Sent out 1 application and went there sight unseen. They paid tuition, I did work study for room and board. Same for my 4 sibs. We all managed extremely well. It wasn’t unusual and no one thought them terrible for it at the time, though it’s hardly standard now. Maybe the OPs cultural differences allow for a generation of lag time on how parents view their children’s input? </p>
<p>My college process 30 years ago wasn’t conceptually all that different from what my children did. My parents didn’t “tell me” where I was going to college – we looked, discussed, visited, and wouldn’t have dreamed of going (or even applying) without visiting. And my personal desires / fit were a large piece of the equation in choosing between generally-equal academic schools. </p>
<p>Now from a logistics standpoint - there’s a lot more info out there and the lower acceptance rates mean a heck of a lot more strategy needs to be applied. But the overall concept that the student’s desires and perceived fit were very important considerations – yeah, that concept hasn’t changed. </p>
<p>Yeah, my parents were very old school. Neither had degrees. College was college and it was more than they had so they told us where to go and that we needed to make the best of it. We were thankful to not have college debt and it all worked out all right but, yes, we had friends who applied several places and visited them before deciding where to go, etc. We are certainly fully immersed in the whole college thing now as my wife and I loved all things school related, but I’m glad that my kids retain some sensibility about the process as they both realize there are many great schools and that they can probably “fit in” in a lot of different places. I think some people here get bogged down in extraneous details that end up detracting from enjoying and making the most of the larger picture of life in college.</p>
<p>My parents didn’t have college degrees at all. I think it’s very possible to care about the process and also realize there are many great schools and one could “fit in” in a lot of different places. Please don’t mistake my comment about my own personal fit driving a lot of my choice as a comment that I wouldn’t have fit just as nicely in any of the other fine places I was also accepting. It’s just that - if all else is equal or close enough to equal - why not make fit a decision parameter? </p>
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<p>This must be the tenth thread at least in which I have seen you make this statement, often for no particular reason, and with no attempt to put it in any kind of context.</p>
<p>How about finding another hobby horse to ride?</p>
<p>I guess he feels that this high a percentage of greek membership is noteworthy because it is so very unusually high, therefore it may have more bearing on the campus life than one would ordinarily expect. And without pointing it out people would have no reason to expect that it is so high there, and might not look into this unusual feature for themselves to enable them to evaluate it in context.</p>
<p>I’m not really sure why it’s a problem to highlight a feature that is unusual or atypical…</p>
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<p>I have to agree with PizzaGirl that the most famous names historically don’t have a monopoly on quality teaching. As acceptance rates have plummeted, yesterday’s back-up choices have become today’s dream-school choices. It would not surprise me to find that the median student’s stats and accomplishments at Northwestern today matches or exceeds the median student’s stats and accomplishments at HYP 20 years ago – these top students end up SOMEWHERE when there’s not enough room in HYPSM for all of them.</p>
<p>There are around 3000 colleges in this country; a list of the Top 60 would still be the Top 2%, yet many people think reaching that far down the list is slumming it.</p>
<p>Dumb thread is dumb. </p>
<p>“I’m not really sure why it’s a problem to highlight a feature that is unusual or atypical.”</p>
<p>Because it’s not what this particular poster needs. Look, anyone can sit and contemplate the finer points of “deciding” between Harvard and Yale and Princeton and Dartmouth and Stanford and other fine schools … but it’s a fool’s exercise unless one actually has these acceptances in hand and must choose. Meanwhile, it reinforces for her that these handful of schools are the only ones worth considering and that’s exactly what she does NOT need. </p>
<p>Someone unfamiliar with the education system in this country lied to her, big time, by telling her that, and if we’re going to be helpful, we need to open her eyes to the many fine schools out there, not reinforce that a handful of schools with sub-10% acceptance rates is what a 9th grader girl should be focusing on.
So point #1 is – gosh, even the “lowly” Dukes and Cornells and JHU’s of the world might be barely acceptable.
Then we’ll get to point #2 which is – and there are even schools beyond that, imagine that.</p>
<p>Strength of the Greek system on campus makes a huge difference to some kids. Some won’t apply if it’s too strong, some won’t apply if it’s too weak. Unlike a lot of factors, this one can really matter, particularly as it relates to the residential system, and it’s something you can measure, unlike some of the more amorphous reputational issues. I’ve seen kids completely turned off by the prevalence of the Greek system (and its effect on the residential system) at MIT, and I’ve seen some completely thrilled by it. </p>
<p>Wait, isn’t the OP’s kid in EIGHTH GRADE? For the love of god.</p>