<p>“The OP still hasn’t clarified what he means by a decent job. He might not mean BIGLAW at all.”</p>
<p>It helps regardless…</p>
<p>Of course it helps, but if the OP’s definition of a good job is, “Anything where I don’t advertise on television,” and his definition of a “top” school is, “the top fourteen,” then his question is:</p>
<p>“Do I have to go to a T14 in order to get a job as a lawyer that doesn’t involve television advertising?”</p>
<p>The answer is clearly no.</p>
<p>Heres what I mean. I’ve heard about a friend of my mothers who’s a lawyer and has to take divorce cases as the bread and butter of his practice in order to make a decent living. Although he would rather not take divorce cases, he needs to. So a job I’m talking about is something where you don’t have to constantly take cases like that in order to make a living. And as far as a top school, I guess I am kind of wondering how good the school has to be in order to get a decent job.</p>
<p>So there’s a lot of law schools out there that won’t force you to do divorce specifically, but the vast majority of lawyers sometimes (often?) have to do things they’d rather not do – criminal attorneys having to defend a side (whether defense or prosecution) that they don’t believe in, young corporate lawyers having to stay until 3 AM reading obscure cases, etc. You have to do unpleasant things no matter what law school you graduated from. The main difference is how much you get paid to do it, not how much you actually like the work itself.</p>
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<p>For that matter, firefighters have to sit in firehouses all day with very little to do, medical residents have to disimpact the bowels of demented patients, consultants have to lay off entire divisions at a time because a CEO doesn’t want to become unpopular, etc. There are very few jobs which only involve things you love doing.</p>
<p>(Jim Sorgi, perhaps?)</p>
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<p>Generally, the higher ranked the law school, the more options you have open to you. The “elite” law schools are generally considered to be the top fourteen schools or so. These lawyers tend to have options in major New York firms, where they’ll be working very long hours (80-90+) doing a variety of tasks – some of which will be very tedious, some of which might actually be pretty exciting – and getting paid large amounts of money.</p>
<p>Do they like their job better than the attorney your mother mentions? Aside from the money, I’m not sure. But at the very least, these lawyers are considered the “cream” of the crop and had the most options available to them after school.</p>
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<p>If your only goal is to avoid divorce proceedings and television advertisement, that’s a pretty low bar indeed. Many of the top 100 schools (I think) will manage that much, at least regionally.</p>
<p>If you don’t go to a top law school (and I would say top 20 or even a few more), it is a good idea to go to the state university law school in the state where you want to live and DO REALLY WELL. I agree with everything in the WSJ article. You get a fine education at the Loyolas and the equivalent law schools, but unless you are at the top of the class, you WILL struggle to find a good job. I am not just talking about the major law firms. Corporations and even government are able to be much more selective.<br>
That said, a top 15% at UTexas or UTennessee will serve you really well in those respective states and the networking is strong.
I attended a top 5 law school (back before computers…), have been practicing for 30 years, and my degree STILL opens doors for me (which I think is really stupid, to be honest).</p>
<p>I think I am going to agree with MOWC on this one.
d did well enough on LSAT/GPA that she should get acceptances to some top 20 schools-<br>
but if her stats were lower, I would have suggested she give ALOT of consideration to Suny Buffalo. It’s still pretty well ranked (top 80??) and tuition is reasonable for NY residents. They also have some good programs including an internship in NYC.
To me, It kinda makes more sense to go to Buffalo than NY Law (this is different than NYU) , St. John’s, Brooklyn etc. if you have to pay top dolllar to attend!!</p>
<p>I think I would rather she take that route then give up a dream to attend Law School if she couldn’t make it into a top law school.</p>
<p>The bigger question is- Do you want to be a lawyer??
or do you want to tell people you are a grad of HYS etc.Law school??
I think that will dictate what action you take.</p>
<p>i see a lot of people in the government that were previously lawyers. to work in public policy after working as a lawyer, is the name of the law school still important, or is it more dependent on work after school/networking?</p>
<p>“If you don’t go to a top law school (and I would say top 20 or even a few more), it is a good idea to go to the state university law school in the state where you want to live”</p>
<p>I agree, and I would add “local private law schools that will give you merit money” in the state where you want to live as equivalents to local public schools. Whether you’re getting the discount due to in-state tuition or due to merit money, the upshot is the same: you’re spending less on your relatively risky investment. That’s usually a smart move.</p>
<p>Agree with you Hanna- merit $ from a private law school could bring the costs in line with State U. school.</p>
<p>GW was extremely generous with merit awards last year. They seem to be going that route this admission cycle too for those kids who apply ED to GW.</p>
<p>That gets into another issue, as my guess is that alot of these kids may get T-14 acceptances.<br>
so another question may be- take the Merit money from a top 25 school like GW, BU and some others OR- go to a T-14 at full cost.
Just throwing it out for any opinions. It seemed to be a big issue last year on LSD. (Law school discussion website) Alot of Kids were deciding whether to take the money from GW or pay full cost for schools like Duke- NW and others.</p>
<p>If what you want is to work at a big stuffy law firm, then you are right, the name of your school is important. But the is a LOT more to law than big stuffy law firms</p>
<p>I went to a tier 3, state college followed by a provisionally accredited law school. The law school was a new school and it became fully accredited during the time that I was in school. Despite that, I am known and respected in my profession
I graduated June '78. took the Bar Exam in July. Learned that I Passed in November, Got sworn in in December and started working as a public defender in Feb. 79. The PD jobs were very competitive. There were many who went to name schools who were not hired.</p>
<p>I am still in public service and I work with people who went to impressive schools. We make the same money and we do the same work. Many of my classmates are judges. Most people in my class are successful.</p>
<p>I made connections with people , by working on political campaigns. Luckily, my candidates won. They opened doors for me, but you have to impress people once you get in the door. You can do that based on who you are and how you come across. After you are out…Nobody asks where you went to school…unless your are trying to go to work in one of the major firms…or a big corporation…but there are LOTS of good legal jobs besides big firms…and corporations. I wouldn’t want to work in a big firm or do corporate law. Sure you make a lot of money…but who wants to work 70 hours per week to represent big companies.</p>
<p>I like public service. I feel like I’m doing some good. It’s not just the chase for the almighty dollar. Plus…Public service can lead to other work.<br>
You can start small and then build it into something bigger. Most of the best trial lawyers started out as public defenders or DA’s </p>
<p>There are lots of factors in getting a job besides the name of your law school
Some of it is luck…being in the right place at the right time…Some of it is who you know. So get out and meet people. Be seen. Be positive.
Then…Once you are in the door, it’s what you know and how you perform.</p>
<p>I agree with Mom El completely. If you are restricting your vision to just those companies that focus on the t-14 schools, you are truly limiting the possibilities a law degree can grant. I know plenty of happy, successful attornies who were neither top in their class, nor from the top law schools. </p>
<p>Also, in many cities, certain local law schools carry more name recognition than the top schools. If a firm is comprised primarily of local graduates, they may be more comfortable with a known education than hiring some hotshot from a lawschool out of town.</p>
<p>I for one am one of those people who want to work in a big law firm and work in corporate law. It’s not about the money for me. Yes, money’s a factor, but when I paid $165k for law school, I expect to see a good ROI for it (and yes, 100%+ every year is a good return). That’s beside the point. I think it’s more about the fact that the stuffy law firms will also work you very hard, and as a result you somehow become a good attorney. And the fact that you’re basically working with the best in the biz. You don’t make $2mil a year without being one of the best in the biz.</p>
<p>Mom El, correct me if I am wrong, but in 1975, when you were applying to law school, even the most expensive law schools in the country cost a small fraction of what most private schools cost today. No one with an ounce of financial wisdom needed to borrow 150,000 (2007) dollars in order to get a law degree. The average law school indebtedness for graduates of the law school you attended (not counting undergrad debt) is over $75,000, compared to an average starting salary of $49,000. That is a completely different financial picture than the one you faced when you were making your decision in 1975. We’re not talking about whether low-ranked law schools may be the path to a fulfilling career. We’re talking about whether they are a wise economic investment for the typical student. For a lot of kids, they may not be.</p>
<p>we were just having a similar discussion a few days ago. Hubby is a Brooklyn Law Grad- 1978. He did 4 year evening program while he worked full time. His recollection was that the semester cost was $800. Costs did not go up as you were locked into the tuition/fees at time of admittance.<br>
Based on his recollection- his law degree cost $6400!!
and even if his memory is a bit off, he is sure the cost was definitely under $10,000 for the 4 year program.<br>
it is a different world today. I can understand why kids do not want to be deeply in debt by age 25–</p>
<p>Well, Hanna, you have a point. Financial considerations are definitely important factor in deciding to go to law school. </p>
<p>My law school tuition was only about $2500 to 3000 per year. I worked my way through college and saved money for grad school. When I graduated, I only owed about $3000 total. I will say that when I graduated, I was not making anywhere close to $49,000 per year. My salary was only $11,500 per year, so public serve was difficult then too. I lived at home, so that cut my expenses.<br>
I just checked the web site for my law school and it now costs just a little over $23000 per year. They do offer public service scholarship up to $16,000 per year. That would certainly make law school affordable. So applying at a lesser known school and getting a scholarship might be something worth looking into.
As for Future nystudent? Good luck to you. I hope you get what you’re looking for…really.
but in the end, money, even $2,000,000 per year…will not buy you happiness, and I know plenty of lawyers who ARE the BEST in the business. Money is not the only measure of quality and success. Many excellent attorneys don’t make anywhere near that amount of money but are still very successful and very happy.</p>
<p>Mom El- the point is that things are a lot different now than when we went to law school in the 70s. There are many more lawyers out there, besides the fact that law school costs so much more. With so many lawyers to choose from, even the government, public interests law firms and corporations can pick from more selective schools. Also, I am seeing an increase in corporations and government hiring experienced lawyers (minimum 5 years) instead of new grads.</p>
<p>I have never worked for a law firm, and my options coming out of law school were good, but that is simply not the case today. I am not trying to discourage anyone- I have a kid planning on law school- but you have to be realistic.</p>
<p>I thought my last thread indicated that I got that point.
law school IS way more expensive now. If, I were getting out of college now and facing that kind of tuition for law school, I’m not sure I’d go. I think I would probably find something else to do.</p>
<p>You don’t need to be in a T14 school to land a job at a top firm, but it will definitely help you stand out from the crowd.</p>
<p>Honestly, I can’t see getting 100K in debt and huge opportunity costs making anything less than 100K/year.</p>
<p>I realize that money doesn’t buy happiness, but I have to be realistic. Money sure as hell helps with happiness, and financially stable people are more likely to be happy than people who are…not.</p>