<p>Basic financial stability is necessary for happiness. But you’re deluding yourself if you think you need to work at biglaw to achieve that stability.</p>
<p>I like expensive things. I have expensive tastes. I have expensive hobbies. I like to travel and stuff. To live the lifestyle that matches my affinity for expensive things and my expensive tastes AND achieve financial stability, yes, I need to work-and succeed-at biglaw.</p>
<p>As for most other people, no, you’re absolutely right. They don’t need to work at biglaw to achieve financial stability. But given my penchant for expensive hobbies, things, and tastes, I’d be up to my eyeballs in credit card debt if I did public interest law at $65k a year for example.</p>
<p>futurenyu – i suggest you seriously stop and think about whether you will have the TIME to pursue all your expensive interests if you go to work at biglaw. i really think you are allowing the dollar signs to blind you a bit as to the reality that comes with those jobs.</p>
<p>For me, a debt burden greater than my pre-tax income would buy a great deal of unhappiness.</p>
<p>I think it’s perfectly legit to have grand financial ambitions, but if an expensive lifestyle is very important to you, IMHO it makes more sense to go into banking, finance, etc. rather than law. There’s a greater likelihood of a big financial payoff, and there are also more career paths where the pace gets more relaxed as you advance (i.e., VP of an i-bank may work fewer hours and have more control over his/her schedule than an analyst right out of college). This is NOT the case in law firms. Partners work just as hard as associates, under arguably greater pressure, and often have to be “on call” during vacations, etc.</p>
<p>Not to mention less debt and an earlier start on earnings power.</p>
<p>Who said I would actually ENJOY the expensive things I buy? I’ll just buy them for the hell of it. And I lost interest in finance. And I work better under pressure. When the pressure element goes away, the quality of my work tanks.</p>
<p>Besides, being a lawyer was a fantasy/dream of mine since, I don’t know…middle school? And I think I’m really gonna like the study of law. I swear, the money that comes with biglaw is just the thing that sealed the deal for me, not a main factor.</p>
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<p>futurenyu – if you work at biglaw, you may collect a penthouse full of expensive stuff, but forget about time to enjoy travel and expensive hobbies. </p>
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<p>one thing you really have to understand – there is an ENORMOUS difference between the study of law and the practice of law. that is probably one of the most fundamental things any prospective law student has to realize.</p>
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This is a rather ■■■■■-like thing to say.</p>
<p>Yeah, that makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, it sounds like a plan that could lead to a lot of unhappiness.</p>
<p>I admire your focus, but as is the case with most who are so fervidly determined on a course of action, I think you have many blind spots. If you looked at the situation rationally, you wouldn’t be so enthusiastic.</p>
<p>If you mean biglaw jobs there are certain cutoffs. The T10 or so you can be pretty much anywhere in your class and have a “shot” at biglaw…and if you’re top 50% you’re pretty much guaranteed it. From 11-14 it’s almost the same though you’re gonna have to hustle to get a biglaw job if you’re around the top 75% and from there on out it’s really regional. schools 15-20 place pretty much as well as gerogetown/cornell in their regions. Cornell is heavy on nyc and gtown dc (for obvious reason). Texas will place best in tx, ucla/sc in la and so on. If I’m paying full tuition I wouldn’t go to anything outside the T20…</p>
<p>When I attended law school in Berkeley in the early 70’s tuition was about $750 per year. Now it’s $25,000 and slated to hit the mid 40’s in the next few years. I’m not aware of any law school in California which is significantly less expensive That makes a tremendous difference in the decision to go to law school and restricts your options upon graduation. I was able to work my way through school, emerge debt free, and choose my career. Nowadays law school grads are basically indentured servants. I hate that. I think it’s bad for society and bad for my kid’s generation as a whole.</p>
<p>Having said that, I think that unless you have an irrational need to be a lawyer, it makes little sense to do other than what has been suggested above: If you’re willing to be a big firm drone upon graduation, apply to top schools only and if you’re not admitted do something else. “Top schools” includes only nationally known schools or top state or regional schools which will lead to well compensated, button-down jobs upon graduation. Economically, what else can you do?</p>
<p>If you are truly passionate about being an attorney and doing the work, going to a top tier law school will get you in the door to get your first job, but it won’t guarantee that you’ll KEEP it. Neither will it guarantee some sort of stellar legal career.</p>
<p>My husband and I went to our home State U law school (not considered a top-tier law school, but we think we got a good education).</p>
<p>I work in legal publishing now, but my husband has his own practice. He routinely kicks the a**es of those other attorneys who graduated from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Michigan, and the like. There are plenty of smart attorneys everywhere. They are not limited to the big “name” schools. </p>
<p>My family’s experience has been that being an attorney can be lucrative, but you EARN every dollar!!!</p>
<p>From this thread, sounds like law practice of the future will be dominated by children of the rich.</p>
<p>From what I’ve seen (outside looking in) big law can actually be an inferior platform for a career if you have to step out; excessive over-specialization, and working on matters only found in big-law. yet 85% of those people have to leave, eventually.</p>
<p>Being a lawyer means, worse comes to worse, you can always put your shingle out. Other people can’t necessarily do that. But whether you’ve learned anything along the way that can actually help you function in that kind of business is another matter.</p>
<p>Small-to-midsize firms may actually offer more breadth of experience, as a foundation for what may come up in the future.</p>
<p>Big-law partners do continue to work the hours, true, but they get paid a ton.</p>
<p>Big issue is: rain-maker or worker bee.</p>
<p>Does anybody ask themselves and answer accurately why they want to go to law school and if their expectations match reality in the working world? I strongly suggest that you do.</p>
<p>If you do your homework in your state bar associations you may be amazed to find out the high level of job dissatisfaction and dysfunctional professionals and families. </p>
<p>Too many people go to law school for the wrong reasons. There is always a need for strong ETHICAL lawyers. And do a healthy analysis of why there is job dissatisfaction and it may surprise you to the reasons. Boredom is not one of the top 5 usually. Its stress, conflicts, working for people who stretch the meaning of the words compassionate human being, having to bill every living breathing moment from the minute you jump out of bed (if you went to bed at all) until you retire in the evening, and on and on…its not just New York and New York firms either. </p>
<p>So have a clear idea of what you want to do and where you want to do it and how you are going to get there, then work your plan. Law School is night and day from the practice of law. It can be rewarding at times and it can also be a tedious and HIGHLY stressful career, both internally in law firms, with your own clients and dealing with opposing counsel. And its not just litigation that is stressful either. </p>
<p>As a general rule, you need to do well in school to get a good job. People from lower ranked law schools can find jobs, but not at the income level they dreamed of or doing the kind of work they imagined. If you find yourself in the bottom of your class with your first year grades its time to have a healthy prayer meeting with yourself and decide if it is for you or not and the reasons you are where you are. And getting top grades is not a guarantee of success in practice.</p>
<p>I have not read through this entire thread, but follow Kluge’s advice. My husband is a lawyer and he also worked his way through law school. He got a job working in high end restaurants for the free food while in law school! When not in law school (I guess vacations between terms, or something) he earned money doing other odd jobs. He graduated with a little debt, but it was a reasonable amount of money. His parents did not pay for law school because he had several younger siblings that were either in, or going to go into college for their undergraduate work. monydad, I hope that the lawyer has clients when a shingle gets hung out! There are many struggling attorneys out there. My husband appreciates his good fortune, and no, he did not go to a top law school. He chose his law school according to their Bar pass rate, and probably also the best school that he could into and pay for!</p>
<p>My good friend’s daughter just graduated from a law firm that is not top 14. She transferred their after her first year else where to be with a boyfriend that she has since dropped. The school is in a major city, and she graduated with top grades. She was offered a job with a major firm in the $160K range. Which is more than kids from more prestigious firms often get when they are not top students. It seems like grades are very important in firms, and if you are in a large city and have those grades, any of the law schools there have a number of alums that will hire you. She was surprised at the number of alums from her school that are in top paying firms. This would not be the case, however, should she move back to her home city. There the local law schools tend to dominate. It seems to me that the thing that the top-14 or whatever the number is, gives more portability,but there is a hometown bias as well in hiring.</p>
<p>Nobody is arguing that you can’t earn a good living if you don’t go into biglaw. John Edwards didn’t and he’s made more then 99% of biglaw lawyers…the problem is that going into biglaw is a relatively “secure” high income. You will get paid 160k if you get it and if you work for a few years at a biglaw firm you <em>will</em> be able to come out and go inhouse and make around 100k/yr. On the other hand if you don’t get biglaw and have to do one of a number of other legal jobs you can still make a good living it’s just more risky compared to biglaw.</p>
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<p>The thing is, had she gone to a t14 school she wouldn’t have needed as good of grades. Things worked out for her, but at some schools it’s almost impossible to get that 160k/yr gig unless you are top 10%…and everyone there scored the same as you and is going to be gunning for that top 10% so it’s not as guaranteed as, say, harvard where you can finish pretty much anywhere and still have a shot at a biglaw job.</p>
<p>If you don’t have good grades, even at the top schools, you may only get one bite of the apple. Very few attorneys stick with their first job and grades follow you wherever you go. I have to send transcripts along with all of my submissions of resumes to firms, even if the candidates graduated years ago. The grades that may not have mattered upon graduation can really come back to haunt you later. I have had Harvard grads with mediocre grades not even get interviews at biglaw firms for lateral hires.</p>