Top, non-pretentious colleges?

<p>Hey all, I’m a HS junior who’s recently been looking into colleges. I’m still visiting around, but after 3 college visits today (Haverford, Swarthmore, UPenn) I’ve started to form a vague idea of what I look for in a college. I would much much appreciate it if you guys could recommend me any colleges that align with my preferences. Here’s a quick review:</p>

<p>-I’m an international student currently attending a US high school. Will be full pay anyway (I don’t think I’m good enough to qualify for FA). So state/cost probs won’t matter.
-The college must be **academically reputable<a href=“either%20highly%20ranked/US%20News%20top%2030%20NUs/15%20LACs%20or%20having%20a%20strong%20student%20body%20with%20an%20average%20SAT%20of%202100+%20or%202000+%20for%20state%20schools”>/b</a>.
-Ample resources and research opportunities (I’m going to be an Economics/premed)
-The frat culture must not dominate the school’s social life because I’m honestly not into that stuff.
-Academics before athletics. This is why I’m looking into several DIII schools where the sport cultures are not as intense.
-Non-pompous, non-pretentious, non-elitist student body. It’s okay if there are a few stuckups here and there, but a friendly vibe from everyone is a must.
-Suburban or urban (preferably suburban?, but definitely NOT rural).
-Co-ed.</p>

<p>My impressions of Haverford, Swarthmore, and Penn from the visits:
-Haverford: I love the culture and the whole honor code thing. Everyone looked super fresh and relaxed even though it was the last day of finals. The only problem is that the campus and its size feel too much like those of the boarding school I’m attending, and I’m not sure I want to experience another 4 years of high school. I need to branch out.
-Swarthmore: claustrophobic architectural design (what’s with the clustering of all buildings on one side of the campus!!), intense, stressful. There were a couple of relaxed-looking students, but everyone else had this grim, macabre expression on his face!
-UPenn: I came in expecting to be most impressed by the school (since it’s the richest of the three). The resources and facilities were phenomenal, but the elitist atmosphere permeating the student crowd was such a turnoff. I asked a student there for direction, and he didn’t even know where the admissions office was! My tour guide also kept talking about the party scene and the frat and the word “Ivy”. And the admissions officers addressed me in a most possibly condescending tone. I know it was just 1 hour of touring, but I couldn’t, and can’t imagine being a student there. </p>

<p>Schools I’m interested in so far (please chime in about the sport culture/frat culture/elitism at each):
-Haverford (bar the size)
-WUSTL
-Johns Hopkins
-Northwestern
-UChicago
-Georgetown
-Cornell (it seems the least pretentious out of all Ivies? but I also heard the frats are pretty hardcore)
-UMich (the vigorous football culture could potentially turn me off, but I hope the fact that it’s a state school sets back the problem of pretentiousness; plus I need a low match/safety of sorts).
-UC Berkeley</p>

<p>Take a look at Pomona, a top ranked LAC in Claremont, CA, a suburb of LA. Part of a 5 school consortium with contiguous campuses, so you have the best of both worlds - the personal attention and small class size of a LAC with the resources of a mid-sized university. No frats, great weather year round, access to LA, and top-ranked academics.</p>

<p>Consider Brown, in Providence, RI as well. Another potential good fit. A small university with an intellectual and artsy vibe (courtesy of RISD which is contiguous to the campus).</p>

<p>Reed might also be a fit - another LAC, located in Portland OR. More alternative than the others. Reed specializes in smart but angular students who pride themselves on the ‘anti-prep’ ‘anti-frat’ vibe of the campus culture. But you have to be okay with rain.</p>

<p>Lastsly, take a look at Wesleyan in Middletown, CT.</p>

<p>At virtually any highly selective college, you’ll find a certain amount of elitism. You may find less of it at smaller, less famous colleges or as you move farther away from the Northeast. One of my sons considered Haverford and had the same ambivalence toward it as you do. His selection criteria were similar to yours. He also liked Wesleyan, Colorado College, Reed, and Macalester. He might have liked Grinnell but thought it was too rural/isolated.</p>

<p>On the US News site, you can find the percentage of students belonging to fraternities and sororities. It’s in the Student Life section, under Clubs & Organizations. Example: [Northwestern</a> University | Student Life | Best College | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/northwestern-university-1739/student-life?int=c6b9e3]Northwestern”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/northwestern-university-1739/student-life?int=c6b9e3)</p>

<p>Many LACs are in rural or small town settings. Exceptions include the LACs I mentioned above. Several small college consortiums give you some of the advantages of a larger community and more course selection. You’ve already looked at the Philadelphia-area consortium schools (Haverford-Swat-Penn). The Amherst 5 college consortium and the Claremont colleges are the other major LAC consortiums (or “consortia” for you elitist snobs :)).</p>

<p>You say you’d consider “either highly ranked/US News top 30 NUs/15 LACs”. In my opinion, LAC quality goes deeper than the top 15. Some of the 20-something or 30-something LACs have little difference in look-and-feel from the top 10. English at Kenyon or Classics at Bryn Mawr will be every bit as good as (or better than) what you’d get at some of the higher-ranked LACs. Quality-wise, you can confidently consider the top 30, 40 or more for the atmosphere and setting you like. Rice, Brandeis and Rochester are three smaller universities to consider.</p>

<p>I agree that you can go up to Top 30 in LACs (and 50 for safeties).
Your description screams “Grinnell” or “Carleton” but if you don’t want rural, Grinnell is out. Carleton is in a small college town about 45mn away from the Twin Cities so it may work. Macalester is right in the middle of the city.
For national universities, you can safely go to 32, and add Penn State if you get into Shreyer’s since Shreyer’s atmosphere is quite different from the rest of the campus (although the rest of the campus IS big on football and Greek life overall.)
For a more “down-to-earth” atmosphere, you’ll need to look to the Midwest and the West Coast. Elsewhere, look at what percentage students come from public schools. You want a high percentage (60+%) if possible if you want a different atmosphere from your boarding school.
I’d remove WUST from your list. It’s kind of the opposite of what you’re looking for.</p>

<p>You ought to take a look at Rice. No frats, academics >> athletics, non-pretentious student body, in the middle of a city though not extremely urban, next door to the Texas Medical Center and great for premeds.</p>

<p>Definitely hard to completely escape that vibe at very selective schools. I second the Cornell and Brown recommendations. The University of Richmond is a worthy consideration. Schools that attract kids seeking merit money but are still top level schools are more apt to have a less pretentious feel. LAC’s that are ranked from 20 to 40, state flagships etc.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure my kid would be one who wouldn’t know where the admissions office is, never having visited it. Students would never have occasion to go there once enrolled. Only prospies who are able to visit would have. Why is that a consideration?</p>

<p>I think it is pretty easy for you to do a couple sorts yourself on 45 colleges to narrow it down for the major hard criteria you have, location, SAT scores. Then do some reading in the individual forums after reading, Fiske Guide, say. I always wonder if students who mention elitist people are sensitive or insecure. It’s just such an individual thing with people, not with a college, to me. I have heard UChicago people say Harvard people are pretentious, and I’ve heard UNC-CH people say UChicago people are pretentious, and I’ve heard Berkeley people say Brown people are. So how meaningful is that to how you pick your friends? And my kid is in grad school in the midwest and has no interest in football and just immerses herself in the music scene. It is such another odd thing to focus on to me because no one makes you like or talk about football. Why no just do what you like wherever you are? Pardon my digression.</p>

<p>Actually, I’m going to California in 5 days, so I’ll definitely visit the Claremonts + Pomona + Berk/Stanford :D.</p>

<p>Thanks for the Rice recommendation. I’ll look into it. </p>

<p>@Myos: what’s wrong with WUSTL? I’ve heard and read that the schools has one of the nicest student bodies among top schools.</p>

<p>@tk: I’m not sure if the % of students in a frat reflects how predominantly it dominates the campus. Some frat cultures at certain schools are more intense than the others–I’ve heard that WUSTL’s are not as hardcore as the old, blue blood Ivies etc, despite 1/5 of the male students being in a frat.</p>

<p>@BrownParent: I’m in a school where athletics dominates, so I know what it’s like to be an odd duck who’s apathetic about sports. Eh…and I guess you could say that I’m a sensitive and insecure person.</p>

<p>Plenty of colleges outside the range you are suggesting are “academically reputable.” It is pretentious to suggest otherwise. If you are interested in undergraduate research and want a LAC environment, some of the best schools for that are in the 50-100 range of USNWR.</p>

<p>If you are genuinely concerned about finding a down-to-earth vibe, I would definitely encourage you to look in the midwest, south, or west coast. Wash U and Rice are great university options; Carleton and Macalester would be perfect LAC choices, although Carleton is 45 minutes from the Twin Cities.</p>

<p>^I agree with your statement. But I also have to somehow convince my parents to let me apply to those colleges outside the range I’m suggesting. They’re the ones paying the tuition after all. They wouldn’t even let me visit Bryn Mawr after seeing that its average SAT is <2000 :(. Since my high school’s average SAT is a 2095, they don’t want to see me “take a step down” from HS. </p>

<p>@sally: Yeah, that’s why many of the colleges on my list right now are in the Midwest. </p>

<p>I will look into Reed, Carleton, and Macalester.</p>

<p>Anyone mind chiming in about Northwestern, JHU, Georgetown, and UChic?</p>

<p>Rice was the first school that came to mind reading those requirements. Also check out Case Western, Emory, and even Georgia Tech. Vanderbilt also hits all those points, but may be more frat-ish than desired. On that note, don’t let that rule out an otherwise great choice. Even at heavier frat schools, there are many independents (usually the majority) and lots of non-Greek social life.</p>

<p>Schools that only offer an early decision acceptance plan and not early action plan are pretentious.</p>

<p><a href=“http://collegeadmissionbook.com/blog/2013-colleges-early-decision-plans[/url]”>College Admission;

<p>If a unversity insists that a student drop all other college applications/acceptances upon admittance, without regard to financials, then that is the definition of pretentiousness. It basically says if you are rich you have a better chance of getting in…</p>

<p>Rice also came to mind when I read the description. </p>

<p>William and Mary is a mid-sized, very academic public school in Virginia. Check it out. </p>

<p>Sent from my iPhone using [URL=&lt;a href=“Tapatalk”&gt;Tapatalk]Tapatalk[/URL</a>]</p>

<p>"-UMich (the vigorous football culture could potentially turn me off, but I hope the fact that it’s a state school sets back the problem of pretentiousness; plus I need a low match/safety of sorts)."</p>

<p>The above statement reeks of pretentiousness.</p>

<p>@MBVL</p>

<p>For the record I don’t know much about these schools as I have not visited. These are just the impressions I get as a prospective applicant.</p>

<p>UChicago: a lot like swarthmore. Academically and intellectually intense. Prestige is beginning to dominate in recent years as well so if that equates to pretentiousness I’m not sure. Rather quirky.</p>

<p>Georgetown: probably the closest to an Ivy in terms of lots of old money and prestige. Big focus on politics and international relations. Sort of pre-professional.</p>

<p>These two colleges are located in cities, which makes it a lot easier to get as much or as little of their vibe as you want. I have been to UPenn and realize it’s not in the most interesting place to explore the city, but I think UChicago and Georgetown are better off in that regard even though I haven’t been.</p>

<p>JHU: big pre-med focus, giving it a reputation of being rather cutthroat/competitive. Don’t know much else since that turned me off from it right away.</p>

<p>Northwestern: IMO, the closest to what you’re looking for. It may be a bit competitive, sporty, and fratty, but there are enough diverse people (especially in the arts) that you will be able to find a niche. Being in the Midwest, it will be significantly less pretentious than east coast schools.</p>

<p>As for what you’re looking for: Pomona seems to be the best option. When I visited, I went out to dinner the night before at a local restaurant and the waitress hadn’t even heard of it (thought I referring to Cal Poly Pomona). They aren’t at all concerned with reputation but are a fabulous school nonetheless. Also look at some of the other good LAC suggestions mentioned above. Best of luck in your search!</p>

<p>@rjkofnovi: I know you in particular are pretty defensive about UMichigan, but that doesn’t change the fact that 100% students with a 3.4+, 2050+ SAT from my school get in. So I’m pretty sure I, with significant better stats, can get in as well. It’s a great institution academically, but its selectivity isn’t quite up to par with the other schools I’m looking into. </p>

<p>@Jazzed: so Georgetown = out?</p>

<p>You must be at a top private/public school, because those stats are quite unremarkable. I can understand your pretentiousness comments now.</p>

<p>Take uMich off your list. It’s a football school. And a pretty good school, state or not (and a crap shoot as to whether you could get in if you want to pop over to one of the U of M EA decision threads. There’s a stats thread and a deferral thread. Yes I’m from Michigan and found this post slightly offensive.</p>

<p>Have you posted stats?</p>

<p>The OP will much more than likely get into Michigan cmgrayson. It’s just the irony pertaining to the discussion of this thread that caused me to comment.</p>

<p>“It’s a great institution academically, but its selectivity isn’t quite up to par with the other schools I’m looking into.”</p>

<p>See the irony?</p>