Top Schools Admission

Applying to College
1

<p>Hello CC,</p>

<p>First, I wanted to be clear: I’m in no way trying to create a “omg I don’t have this?? I’m screwed for life, no college, time to work at McDonalds” thread. With that in mind, I just wanted some of your opinions.</p>

<p>So top schools, namely the top 15, I know a lot of people here suggest that the aim is to have 700’s across the board to be on level with other applicants. To, essentially, not “raise an eyebrow”. Now, supposing one or more of these were not accomplished, what other parts of the app can make up for it or make an admissions officer not care about it? From essays, to teacher recommendations, to extracurriculars (examples?), etc. </p>

<p>(Or ACT Equivalent [around a 31?])
One under 700?:
Two under 700?:</p>

<p>So, if you can offer your ideas, I would really appreciate it.</p>

<p>Thank you all in advance!!</p>

2

<p>First of all, there is significant diversity among “the top 15” in terms of what they are looking for in applicants. MIT for example is likely to be more impressed with the winner of a national science competition than Wharton. There simply is not a standard formula of “other parts of the app can make up for [low scores]”. </p>

<p>Also, I would argue that in order “to be on level with other applicants” you would need scores above 750, not just 700, on all three subscores of the SAT I as well as all SAT II (rough ACT equivalent would be 34 subscores).</p>

<p>Having thrown in those two caveats, I would answer your question with two words: passion and excellence. Passion should be reflected consistently throughout your application and clearly define who you are and why you are exceptional. Excellence needs to be more than a 4.0 GPA and three-sport captain by demonstrating a commitment to finding and overcoming new obstacles.</p>

3

<p>Much of it has to do with focus. I have seen too many 2350/4.0 get turned down by every Ivy because they presented an application with random ECs that screamed “I did everything to get into college!”.</p>

4

<p>You can’t make up in one area for a problem in another. That’s just not how it works. If your scores are borderline but everything else is great, you can still have a shot at great schools. What borderline means might depend on where you apply and also who you are. Because of different access to test prep and ability to pay for repeat tests, a private school student from NY might need higher scores than someone from Mississippi who needs 100% aid.</p>

5

<p>People really underestimate the power of teacher recommendations.</p>

<p>Your recommendations ought to be so good that teachers will give their firstborn to simply WRITE them for you. (not really, but they should know you on a personal level, at your core and be able to describe that. That screams volumes of an applicant)</p>

<p>Scores are only one component. While significant, if your scores are under that “700” threshold, it doesn’t automatically disqualify you. While I don’t believe that there are other parts of the application that can make up for scores, simply have strengths in other parts will help you out.</p>

<p>As I say that though, your scores need to be high enough to prove that you can handle the academic rigor of a college that is reviewing your application. What’s the magic cutoff? There isn’t one. But the rule of thumb around here is 2100+/32+, or more preferably, 34+/2250+. (I personally don’t agree with this, but everyone on this site is insane about scores)</p>

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<p>^ to add to that thought, this is from SilverTurtle’s SAT guide which answers your ‘two under 700’ question:</p>

<p>“Applicants with under 2100 or so on the SAT have an extremely low chance of being accepted unless the rest of their applications are very strong (outstandingly so). As your score falls much below that number, your chance very quickly, though asymptotically, approaches zero. Most unhooked acceptees’ scores are probably around 2300 or higher. For SAT Subject tests, 750 or higher is a good score (with perhaps the exception of Math Level
2); this varies a bit from test to test, though. Below 700 is subpar for top schools.”</p>

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<p>You guys are so wring it makes me laugh…If you look at the average scores for any of the top schools, MOST fall around 31 or 32. With these averages, assume 20% is a hooked applicant, that leaves 30%, yeah 30% of students with scores BELOW that average! So while earning a high score will allow you more space for “competitiveness” there is not magic number to make or break an application…</p>

<p>Please do not argue simply because your son/daughter/niece/second cousin got a high score and was rejected…</p>

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<p>The responses so far have been amazing, and this definitely proves to me what a valuable resource CC can be. Any other insights would be greatly appreciated too.</p>

<p>I just wanted to respond to a few:</p>

<p>I understand that passion and focus would definitely help, but that would even be required of an applicant with qualified scores, no? But that was definitely what I was looking for. Showing focus in your ECs.</p>

<p>flips4ever: That was exactly one of the responses I was looking to address: location, access, availability. Are these important factors? I know some people believe that “a truly motivated student can use studyguides on the internet, go to a bookstore, etc”. But are there circumstances where those three factors really matter? What about a full chinese student from California. By that description, you would instantly think “no chance; crazy magnet schools from Mission and all of the other Chinese students that score perfect scores”. But then what about socio-economic status? A first-child first born immigrant living in a rural area without all of those resources available? How does this all play into it?</p>

<p>SpaceDuck: Another brilliant point I wanted insight on. I know people’ll ask me to “search the boards, it’s been answered over and over”, but it just feels like one of those things that’ll never have a consensus. Do powerful recommendations factor a lot for these top-level universities? Recommendations with personal anecdotes, quotes of the applicant, and discusses the struggles that were overcome to become an academic powerhouse in a public high school? How much do top-level universities really care about recommendations? No teacher’s going to write a bad recommendation for these universities, but what constitutes great? Scores that are above can be affected by poor recommendations; scores that are average would be killed. To what degree can a good one affect each of the scenarios on the original post?</p>

<p>flips4ever #2: The reason I separated each section was because of the case where, for example, a student does surpass 2100 but one score, say CR, is mid-600s, or two scores CR and Writing 650-700. I hear 2100 is one threshold (minimum), but I hear you are not only expected to pass those, you’re expected to score 700’s across the board. Then also, with the ACT, I hear colleges focus more on the English than the Reading section, as the English ACT is grammar and comprehension. How does the ACT fit in? Could submitting both and having a high English score but low Reading on ACT, and then low CR on SAT indicate that a student is a slow reader? Is there anything else you can bring to this discussion?</p>

<p>lukelev07: I definitely hear where you’re coming from, and I am not saying that an application would be killed by low scores. I’m just asking what areas can maybe supplement not having an expectation of scores. </p>

<p>Thanks again for all of your contributions so far!</p>

9

<p>There is a big difference between the most selective of the top 15 such colleges and those on the second half of that list. Basically, getting into HPY isn’t going to happen unless you have some hook if you do not have nearly perfect test scores and are one of the top 3 of your class. Even if you are in that category, you are no shoo in. If you are talking about a school like Brown or Johns Hopkins or UPenn, there is more breathing room. But it all depends on a lot of factors including chance. Pure chance also plays a role.</p>

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<p>I understand that, cpt; I just wanted to convey that I’m talking about top schools… Do weak hooks count in your analysis of getting into hyp? (first generation, first child, (chinese though) </p>

<p>Still looking for people to respond to last post and any other insight.</p>

<p>Thanks a bunch!</p>