<p>No “leftist” here. It comes from the U.S.-backed former Prime Minister.</p>
<p>Doesn’t matter much. The Administration is working hard to figure out how to declare victory so we can leave. The line between “victory” and “cut-and-run” is very thinly drawn, and I’m not Iraqis care either way - they just want us OUT, and their duly elected government has asked for a timetable.</p>
<p>I’d hate to be the last soldier left behind…</p>
<p>From my posting on a Houston Rockets’ chat board.</p>
<p>Mission is failing?</p>
<p>Permanent bases?.. Not likely.</p>
<p>Control of oil? …No. We still have to purchase it at market prices, just like before. Iraq War has let to shortage and price rises. Cost of Iraq War would have purchased a lot of oil.</p>
<p>Democracy and human rights? …Allawi has said it is just as bad as with Sadam. 100,000 Iraqi deaths so far beyond Iraq under Sadam.
Wmd… None there as Dubya (or at least Cheney) were pretty certain.</p>
<p>Terrorism in Iraq? …Not before. Iraq is now a training ground per the CIA. </p>
<p>World Domination?.. Nope. The “Iraqi Syndrome” will dwarf the Vietnam Syndrome. Imperialistic America in retreat in domestic polls & worldwide.</p>
<p>Positive Issue Environment for Repubs?.. Repubs about to take it on the chin due largely to failed Iraqi caper.</p>
<p>Mission Accomplished …Only uncharitable Dems like Michael Moore will show the fakey “top gun” Dubya on the aircraft carrier</p>
<p>Don’t worry, this will all blow over when the petrodollar is to bush’s satisfaction, and all the oil fields are american owned. kidding of course.</p>
<p>Anyway, I must say, this is all rather saddening. You’d think that the bush administration and the rest of its neocon cabal with all their bobastic rhetoric of a “democratic universalism” or “democratic manifest destiny” or “democratic globalism” mandate would have some actual progress to show. </p>
<p>Instead, not too many weeks ago, I heard that white phosphorus(which is definitely a chemical weapon) was used on Iraqi civilians that literally burned their flesh. Now, I find out that, much to my dismay, the torture in Iraq has not lessened now depite the fall of Saddam’s regime. Honestly, the reason I was for this war in the first place was because I thought it could potentially be successful. Although, now that I think about it, the likelihood of making a Germany or a Japan out of a country like Iraq is lessening everyday. Nation building is much too costly in the long run. As a conservative, I find that more and more of the same rhetoric is given, without any materialism behind it all. I just hope that whatever happens, the Iraqi civilians won’t suffer more than they have to.</p>
<p>Abuse footage
An Australian TV channel has broadcast previously unpublished images showing apparent US abuse of prisoners in Iraq’s Abu Ghraib jail in 2003.
The images on SBS TV are thought to be from the same source as those that caused an outcry around the world and led to several US troops being jailed.</p>
<p>The new images show “homicide, torture and sexual humiliation”, SBS said."</p>
<p>A 1995 affidavit by former National Security Agency official Howard Teicher, obtained by the Post, claimed that the U.S. “actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure Iraq had the military weaponry required.” </p>
<p>So I think Rumsfield should answer some questions, don’t you?</p>
<p>EXCUSE ME!!! We are supposed to better than the rest of the world, and we are not…we are doing EXACTLY what Saddam has done…maybe not the numbers, but the same activitiy…you are the hypocrit if you think this is okay…unbeliavable</p>
<p>DO NOT EVER EVER CALL ME A HYPOCRIT…this is news, this is what AMERICA HAS DONE!!!</p>
<p>My god, do you have no sense of decency? Of humanity? We are doing what Saddam, and Hitler, and Stalin did, but guess that is okay with you</p>
<p>YOU ARE THE HYPOCRIT…</p>
<p>And remember, BUSH and RUMSEFIELD LOVED SADDAM…what do you call them? Remember WE GAVE HIM THE MEANS TO HURT PEOPLE _ WE AS AMERICANS DID THAT</p>
<p>I am sad that America does such horrendous things when we are supposed to be the best country in the world</p>
<p>I am sad when anyone is hurt, for any reason, gues you are not, so long as it aint you, you don’t give a damn</p>
<p>did you care before, do you care about IRAQI civlians, the tens of thousands that our army has killed in this war, the babies, the moms, </p>
<p>and yes Saddam was an evil man, but we created him</p>
<p>I’ll oblige. I won’t call you an hypocrit, and stick the wrod I admit to be quite partial to. </p>
<p>“My god, do you have no sense of decency? Of humanity? We are doing what Saddam, and Hitler, and Stalin did, but guess that is okay with you”</p>
<p>No, it is not. But where was your outrage when Mrs. Albright -not Saddam- announced that the death of 500,000 Iraqi children was well worth it. Too bad it was on national television, I guess!</p>
<p>Are you only repulsed by atrocities committed against Iraqi when the offenders are not on your Christmas list </p>
<p>So here it goes … Ma’am, you ARE an hypocrite.</p>
<p>But you are not at all repulsed but what our own soldiers do, seems that is okay for our people to do bad, see I find BOTH things awful, you find anything we do a-okay</p>
<p>You have NO IDEA where my outrage was, by the way</p>
<p>BUt now, your leader is doing these awful things and its okay with you</p>
<p>my god, talk about hypocracy, so long as AMericans do bad things its okay with you, can’t even admit that what is being shown IN PICTURES that are to disgusting to show to the public is bad, you won’t even acknowledge the picture and the evidence of our own government doing this</p>
<p>instead, you ignore it, again and again and again</p>
<p>talk about the pictures, talk about the reports, talk about that instead of me for once</p>
<p>Now, some people might say that anyone who genuinely felt anger over the Iraqi sanctions would have to feel equal animosity towards George HW Bush - the man who started the sanctions- or George W Bush - the man who continued them until their glorious liberation. Hogwash. Those Bushies have an R next to their names. The importance of this letter cannot be stressed enough. A newly discovered symbol of divinity, it imports aura of infallibility that lesser political dregs (often designated with a D) could only dream of. That is why the Revered Ones were right, and Clinton was wrong, for what the unlearned may perceive as the exact same thing.</p>
At first glance (in particular with a Republican dominated House), it would seem that Republicans never really gave a flying crap about Iraqis.</p>
<p>By combining mathematical analysis with recent work by theologians however, we have determined some surprising properties of this mighty letter. In 2000, a single R was worth more than 12 D’s, an impressive ratio by any measure. 1998, a particularly good year, was yet sweeter with a ratio of 33 D to one humble R. One might easily fall into trap of logic, coherence, and so forth and agrue that this is in fact evidence of the contrary, but that is the mindset of a heathen. The R is right, and right is the R, and that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.</p>
<p>I find it ironic that some people can not ever think our government can do any bad and wrong. Just because some other person has done something worse than we have, does not mean that the abuse is a good thing. It can be bad, it can be awful.</p>
<p>It is like discovering that a person stole 10 cars, and another stole 2 cars, does that mean because the person who ONLY 2 cars is okay, because gee, some one else was really bad…and if that person who stole ten cars stole an old ladies person, does that make the person with two cars thefts a “good guy” because someone else was worse"</p>
<p>Well, she ONLY had 5 affairs, while he had 20, still both kind of sucky- both are bad, one of course is worse, but both are still bad</p>
<p>So, just because Saddam was a bad man who did bad things, does that mean that we have the right to do anything we want? To treat prisoners who often were let out because they had done nothing wrong, do we have the right to do bad things to people just because the leader of their country did?</p>
<p>Aren’t we supposed to be better than our “enemies”? Aren’t we supposed to be an example and show that we are indeed better than what they had before?</p>
<p>find me a quote (a little of that celebrated cut & paste) of someone who said this atrocity is a good thing (Madeline Albright doesnt count). It’s absolutely deplorable, inhuman and disgusting. </p>
<p>It’s also absurd to compare the US, Canada or Britain to Nazi Germany, or Saddam’s black-booted and sadistic Iraq. Only a fool could even think such bizarre nonsense (not to say there are not plenty of shrill voxed, feeble minded Americans and subterranean Al Qaeda yahoos prepared to stand up and be counted bizarre and nonsensical).</p>
<p>For the former, no need to look further than this thread.</p>
<p>I reported that news pictures of abuse have come into the public arena, and was IMMEDIATELY attacked for being a hypocrit for sharing the information, and in the same post #5</p>
<p>"Were you sad when your fearless leader authorized the genocide of at least 500,000 Iraqi children? </p>
<p>Your hypocrisy is despicable." </p>
<p>That was from Xiggi, after I said it was sad that we abused prisoners.</p>
<p>Did I deserve that? For sharing that American has done something pretty awful.</p>
<p>Comeon, FS, read my post and the attack on me.</p>
<p>The photos that have recently been released are of the same generation as those that caused international uproar last year. The American perps are the same ones, and they are now in prison. The entire scandal was first announced by military PR people, but still treated, 4 months after the fact, as if it had been covered up. There really is no useful purpose in releasing these additional photos, of the same crimes, which have been tried, adjudicated, and sentenced.</p>
<p>As to the typically absurd title of this thread: I noted that there were some pictures of a prisoner who was apparently being threatened by a soldier controlling a leashed dog. I don’t like that, or support it. But it reminded me of the victims of the Saddam regime that were tied up, alive, and fed to hungry dogs. Please cut the BS. There’s no comparison.</p>