Tough economic times were made even tougher for higher degree graduates specially Phd

<p>2009 data from MIT shows a decrease of 18% for Phd candidate from 88% to 70% with even dramatic decrease in salaries of 21%, 19%, 12% for candidates entering Post-doc, Academia, and industries.</p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/graduation09.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/graduation09.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So Maybe students might be better off going for higher studies after joining the work force funded by employers.</p>

<p>But it looks like these are all based off of students from M.I.T.? Correct me if I'm wrong(?) I wonder how everyone else as a whole compares.</p>

<p>^That part about the PHD candidates is probably for PHDs as a whole. I can't imagine how the average PHD holder from MIT going into industry could only make 93-94K/year.</p>

<p>^^^: No, this data is for MIT only.</p>

<p>Wow... That seems really low...</p>

<p>Now I'm sitting here wondering why someone would go get a PHD from MIT? </p>

<p>Are there a lot of non-Math/Sci/Econ/Engineering PHDs at MIT that are skewing the numbers or what?</p>

<p>I think the reason being that only 71% got into the field of their graduate training there by eliminating the advantage of that experience. The number in the previous 3 years were much higher, 93% in 2006, 90% in 2007, and 89% in 2008</p>

<p>First, I don't think most people get PhDs for the money.</p>

<p>Even so, since when is a starting salary of $93K low? It may not be that high some places in the country, but a lot of places that's pretty good money for a 24 year old. Remember, they get raises and bonuses after that.</p>

<p>A lot of places like to see you work some before giving you really big money. If you're good that should go up pretty fast, or you can develop a reputaton and switch companies or go into business for yourself.</p>

<p>It's a recession too, people.</p>

<p>Yurtle: Here is the Princeton data: </p>

<p><a href="http://ocsweb.princeton.edu/pro-flip/Main.php?MagID=1&MagNo=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ocsweb.princeton.edu/pro-flip/Main.php?MagID=1&MagNo=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>They don't have a large Phd population so it is not comparable but according to this the employment was down drastically.</p>

<p>Only 321/1121 (~30%) got employed at an average salary of $56K.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The silent scandal
The biggest scandal in higher education is not inequality of pay, tuition fees or racism in the lecture hall. It's the number of students it sends through a doctoral pipeline to nowhere, argues John Sutherland...
Departments and universities are innocently proud of the armies of PhDs they graduate. It is a certificate of worth. The more the worthier.</p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>caveat</a> emptor</p>

<p>
[quote]
For PhD’s entering academia, salaries were down 19% to $82,422...

[/quote]
At top research universities the average Assistant Professor salary is about $79,000. For third tier universities and small colleges it can be about $53,000. So, those numbers are still at the top of heap.</p>

<p>Yurtle: Here are other links, but it doesn't provide any employment numbers:</p>

<p>Harvard </p>

<p>Office</a> of Career Services (OCS) Home Page</p>

<p>Yale</p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/career/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/career/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Stanford</p>

<p><a href="http://cardinalcareers.stanford.edu/default.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cardinalcareers.stanford.edu/default.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Caltech: Does have salaries </p>

<p><a href="http://www.career.caltech.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.career.caltech.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>emeraldkity4, thanks- that was an interesting article.</p>

<p>"Even so, since when is a starting salary of $93K low?"</p>

<p>Since that 24 year old got a PHD from MIT. I don't expect someone with a PHD from Western Michigan to make a massive amount of money, but I do expect it from a PHD from MIT. It's MIT. You're literally finding the smartest people in the world. </p>

<p>I guess it makes sense that they don't want to start that kid out high and have him be super awkward and unable to do anything for the company. Still seems low to me though.</p>

<p>^^^
Exactly how much would you expect a typical new graduate, who has never worked a full time position, to make? Mid to high six figures? In this economy? You're dreaming, I don't care whre they went to school. Maybe during the high tech or dot com boom, but not now.</p>

<p>The truth is that worship of alma mater, GPA (common here on CC), or anything like that is far less pronounced in the business world than in academia. It appears you do get a premium for graduating from MIT (I can read by the way, no need to make it bold). And if you'll look, you get a substantial premium for a PhD over a bachelors (again, no need to make it bold). These seem to be failry substantial, somewhere between 10 to 25%.</p>

<p>Work history and work accomplishment makes far more difference than where you graduated from once you get into the working world, presuming you go into the private, non academic sector. And even in the academic sector, I believe what you publish and how good you are at attracting grant money ultimately makes more difference than where you graduated from.</p>

<p>Anybody who disputes this, probably hasn't spent much time hiring people. There are a lot of qualiities equally important as hiring the "smartest" people in the world. I've hired and fired my share of brilliant people.</p>

<p>$93K is top ten percent of income in the US and that's for new graduates up through people with decades of experience.</p>

<p>Qwerty,</p>

<p>$93,000 is a lot of money for a new graduate who will take years to impact a companies "bottom line".</p>

<p>MBA's from "elite" programs have a more immediate effect on their employers so thay are worth more "up front".</p>

<p>A PhD with several years experience and a record of performance; commercially successful procesess, products, and/or patents, is worth a lot more.</p>

<p>In industry/business, you don't get paid for the pedigree (although this helps get that important first job), you get paid for results.</p>

<p>I know one kid that took an offer for close to $200K. He only had a high-school diploma. But he and a bunch of other high-school kids started a tech company and he ran it and they bought the company and his services. He went back to college a few years later with a jingle in his pocket.</p>

<p>The cool thing about the United States is that you can make it big in non-traditional ways.</p>

<p>I think that a starting salary of $93K is excellent right now.</p>

<p>D1 and I are having this discussion now. I am not encuraging her to get a post graduate degree unless it's dictated by her job. She is going into business, which is different than research/engineering type of work. But by pursuing a higher degree, it would take her out of the job market for 2+ years and she probably would be going back to a similar position, minus 2years of pay and 2 years of work experience. She will be making more than what a MIT PhD makes her first year out.</p>

<p>As a hiring manager, I either ignore a doctorate degree (won't pay premium for it) or wonder why he/she is applying for a job within my department. Frankly, I think the candidate maybe too academic for the real business world.</p>

<p>
[quote]
So Maybe students might be better off going for higher studies after joining the work force funded by employers.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>IMO, POIH is 100% correct here.</p>

<p>As an engineer, I cannot see going for a PhD right after school unless-
1. Your dream is academia (or a place like Los Alamos or JPL, which I basically consider academia).
2. It is fully funded and you can't get employment elsewhere.</p>

<p>Some jobs won't hire people without a Masters, but I sure think if you can get started working right away, and get your advanced degrees while working and at your employer's expense that's the way to go.</p>

<p>A semi-literate redneck with a successful paint and body shop can make a quarter million a year just a few years after leaving tech school.</p>

<p>I am refering to a relative who works 60 hour weeks, has a dozen employees, and is very good personally at what he does. </p>

<p>The richest rewards in the US are for those who start, own and operate their own businesses, whether its high tech or no tech. The "average" PhD doesn't even come close to a successful used car lot operator. Of course that is comparing the average of one group to the leading edge of another.</p>

<p>The reason many physicians can utimately do so well financially is because they generally "own" their practices. Will doctors become as de-professionalized as pharmicists? I remember when pharmicists were the professional and social equals of doctors. They owned the drugstores. Now they are usually just employees of big companies. Not a bad life but not the personal wealth previous generations of the occupation enjoyed.</p>