<p>The National Survey of Freshmen, released this week by the Higher Education Research Institute, shows that the majority (73.9%) of students last year applied to 4 or fewer colleges. </p>
<p>Only 11% applied to 7 or more, only 2% to over 11. </p>
<p>The survey was returned by over 263,000 incoming freshmen. I thought that was fascinating, as it goes agains the common belief (held by myself as well I must admit) that more students are applying to more schools. </p>
<p>By the way, 69.8% of incoming freshmen said they were attending their first choice college, 21.2% said they were attending their second choice.</p>
<p>My DS might be one of those in the less than 4 bunch! He seems most interested in the a-u-t-o-admit route at UT… and I’m thinking he’ll not get enough merit aid to make a private school an affordable alternative. Hopefully I’m wrong, because I don’t want him to be in classes with 500 students!</p>
<p>There are negative issues in every system, and the Texas system has its own share of issues.</p>
<p>However, there are also a great number of myths floating around about kids being shut out from the flagship schools. One such myth is about student XYZ with 1400-1500 SAT who could not get into UT or TAMU. This is highly doubtful at UT and an outright fabrication for TAMU because a 1300 SAT grants anyone an … automatic admit.</p>
<p>Further the top 10% is blatantly irrelevant for the most sought after majors such as business and communications. The admission to McCombs Business School is so competitive that it does not make a bit of difference if someone is ranked top 5% or top 45%. On the other hand an SAT of 1500 DOES make a world of difference. </p>
<p>There are also a lot of complaints from public schools that are NOT as good as they pretend to be. Their students who are shut out from UT-Austin because of sub 10% rankings do not get the red carpet treatment at COMPARABLY ranked state schools. There are a number of truly amazing high schools in Texas, but their percentage is very, very small. </p>
<p>Competitive students from Texas DO find competitive schools. The others prefer to blame the system.</p>
<p>Interesting numbers. However, what were those numbers 20 years ago? I still get the sense that the numbers are up but perhaps not as up as I had thought.</p>
<p>One thing to remember is that there are 300,000 more high school seniors this year than there were 10 years ago. I think a lot of kids are applying to more schools because they are afraid they won’t get in anywhere. Also, based on the stats posted on CC, I’m seeing a lot of kids rejected from schools where they would have been shoo-ins 10 years ago. As for the increase in the number of applicants to Indiana, don’t forget that Newsweek declared Indiana a ‘hot’ school last August.</p>
<p>Those are not the numbers I would have expected. I wonder how different the numbers are when looking at them with a geographic, and socioeconomic breakdown.</p>
<p>I agree with Xiggi about the Texas system. My son is a resident but wouldn’t have qualified for the 10% auto-admit because he attends high school out of state. He never had to do his Texas application because he got into his ED school. Had he not, we did not consider Texas a safety to the point of having no other safeties, but it was pretty clear that he would get into UT. The business school was another matter entirely. He had 1410 old scale SAT.</p>
<p>My d’s friends were applying to UT, not TAMU. Check my previous post where I mention the academic admit program at TAMU. And you are a bit misinformed about the academic admit program at TAMU. You have to have a 1300 SAT AND a certain rank to qualify.</p>
<p>Also, rank is more important in the admission process at McCombs than SAT scores. Someone with a near perfect SAT and only a top 9 or 10% rank will NOT get in before someone with a decent SAT of 1200 and a rank of top 1%. Same is true for Plan II and the other competitive colleges and majors at Texas. </p>
<p>And I suggest you consider the following example that was recently published in a local paper. Student from a low performing school who took no AP courses, no Honors courses, though they were offered, had an unweighted gpa of 3.3 and was still in the top 10% at her school. She was admitted to UT. But, a student from a high performing school, took a with a ton of APs, an unwtd gpa of 3.7 and a rank of top 15% was capped at UT. The student from the higher performing school also had a higher SAT score by 200 points.</p>
<p>Questions: Is this fair? (Even the lower performing student interviewed said it was not.) Which student is better prepared for college and more likely to graduate? (Obvious.)</p>
<p>Rank is a just a number and it cannot tell all there is to tell about a student. It is an inferior parameter especially when considered alone in making admissions decisions. It is illogical to build a law based on such an inferior parameter. And it isn’t blaming the system when high school students push themselves to their limits, garner national awards, hundreds of community service hours and many leadership positions and still must take a back seat to a student who got a bunch of As in basketweaving. Even if both do get in, the basketweaver gets his decision immediately, and the hardworker must wait until April to see if there is room. It isn’t blaming the system…it’s calling the system what it is…stinky.</p>
<p>I think some are missing my point. Yes maybe last year they would have been room kids of your son’s qualifications at Texas, and maybe this year there will be room for my d’s friends. (They won’t know until April.) But eventually, if this law stays in place, there will not be room for any non top ten percenters at Texas. It is not only parents of kids at competitive schools who worry about this, but college administrators who oppose the law.</p>
<p>I read where there was a move to limit the auto-admit to top 5%, but lawmakers (in the valley in particular) rejected this because they feel more diversity can be gained by keeping it at 10%. </p>
<p>Regardless of what is <em>fair,</em> this may all become moot since 9 billion in work study/pell grants/perkins loans etc…has just been cut from the federal budget and will not be vetoed by the president. The interest rates will rise, and according to one estimate I saw another 8K in debt for a student that carries the typical 17.5K at graduation. The Texas system may have more room as students are squeezed out financially. :(</p>
<p><strong><em>Edit: 5,800 K not 8K</em></strong></p>
<p>I do agree, the current system is definitely flawed. The gaming at our high school produced a lot of students that were not ready for college level work. They had high ranks and GPAs and low AP/SAT scores. I feel that problem should be solved by the high school, however.</p>
<p>I agree that is a sad way to get the spaces at Texas. I admit to being uninformed about this latest budget cut. I wonder if there is a way to voice our displeasure before the bill hits the president’s desk. He did make big noise about being the Education President after all.</p>
<p>The gaming in our district is beyond ridiculous and you are right, parents have to demand part of the solution there as well. I hear that our district is reconsidering our gpa system, to properly weight AP against Honors against accelerated which are currently unwtd against each other. It’s just a grass roots effort started by teachers, but I hope something comes of it.</p>
<p>This ran in our local paper yesterday. Unfortunately, nothing can be done at this point but try and get it repealed. My son brought this to my attention last fall, and I did call and write my lawmakers. To no avail. </p>
<p>In a nutshell:</p>
<p>Bill hits students, Medicaid
House sends Bush savings bill; president says he will sign it</p>
<p>“The largest reduction in spending would be a nearly $12 billion slice in federal student loans. The cut would also increase interest rates for repaying the loans.”</p>
<p>And I mispoke…it is 5,800 in increase for students who currently have the 17.5K in debt. This will affect loans taken out after July 1 of this year. </p>
<p>The increase in interest rates will apply to PLUS loans as well. It affects work study, low interest student loans, and the like. I went to the congressional record to see what was said on the floor. Apparently law makers feel they have “done enough” to help students get through college. You can look up HR 609 and read the debate.</p>
<p>Re: the UT top 10% issue. I just wanted to assure some of you folks out there that there are also quite a few kids getting in that aren’t top 10%. My S wasn’t and got in last year, as did a number of his friends. He went to a private hs in Houston. I also wrote a number of recs for girls (so know all of their stats) that go to our local public hs that were admitted without being top 10%. My S and most of those kids did have very high SAT scores though, and S was a NMF. He ended up choosing UF because of the scholarship and honors college.</p>
<p>I will add though that I am sure glad that my S #2 is top 10% because he graduates from the public hs class of 2007 when the UT issue may be much worse! Right now he really wants to go to Trinity, but if she scholarship money isn’t right… Hook Em Horns!</p>
<p>I relayed this to my dh…we are just ticked off. As dh points out, $12 billion is a drop in the bucket when considering our deficit woes. Why not find some other ‘cow fart study’ or the like to cut instead. I wonder if this bill has yet to go through the Senate and if we can’t gripe our Senators out before it gets signed into law.</p>
<p>ag - I do, for the most part, agree with your analysis to date. And you are exactly right, as each year passes, the situation will worsen for nontop ten percenters. It isn’t proactive to stand in the moment and not consider what the future holds for our kids under this law. In my conversations with some Texas admin folks, I’ve learned that they are swamped with applications this year, record numbers applying. I know most people don’t care for AA; but at least under AA, more than one number is the driving factor for admissions. That one simple number has taken over the admissions process is something I have hard time accepting.</p>
<p>"My d’s friends were applying to UT, not TAMU. Check my previous post where I mention the academic admit program at TAMU. And you are a bit misinformed about the academic admit program at TAMU. You have to have a 1300 SAT AND a certain rank to qualify.</p>
<p>Also, rank is more important in the admission process at McCombs than SAT scores. Someone with a near perfect SAT and only a top 9 or 10% rank will NOT get in before someone with a decent SAT of 1200 and a rank of top 1%. Same is true for Plan II and the other competitive colleges and majors at Texas."</p>
<p>LDMom, I stand by my conclusions for both UT and TAMU. The account is highly doubtful at UT and virtually impossible at TAMU. Since the discussion was centered around brilliant students BARELY missing the top 10% despite havinng 1400-1500 SAT, I did not think it was needed toi qualify that you also needed to be ranked in the top 50% of a Texas HS … that has an official ranking system. What are the chances that students could fit the rather rare combination of having a 1400-1500 SAT and are not making the top HALF at a school that DOES rank. The fact that this will change to the top 25% for the Fall of 2006 hardly makes a bit of difference. </p>
<p>As far as McCombs goes, while the statistics show that the average of the enrolled student are in the top 3%, the average SAT shows that a 1200 score would not necessarily overcome a stellar ranking. Given the vast range in quality among high school Texas, a top 1 or 3% means virtually nothing WITHOUT the confirmation of other statistics. How many valedictorians does Texas have who would hard-pressed to crack 1000 on the SAT? </p>
<p>FWIW, I rather apply to McCombs and especially the BHP armed with a 1600 (2400 today) SAT and a slightly lower ranking than with a top 1-2% from one of the countless Bubba Central High and a mediocre 1200 SAT.</p>
<p>xiggi - we’ll just have to agree to disagree. But you can check the enrolled freshman profile for the class of 2005 at McCombs at the UT website. Ave rank 3%, Ave SAT mid 1200s.</p>
<p>TTMom, I wish they would be more money allocated to education, but all budget increases are not necessarily beneficial to students, nor all budgets decreases negative. </p>
<p>You really need to scratch the surface on that $12.8 billion bill. For some perspective, one may be interested to research outfits such as Sallie Mae. Several provisions of the bill included massive savings from attempting to rein in companies that engaged in predatory practices on government guaranteed loans and enriched themselves beyond their wildest dreams.</p>
<p>“And btw… for TAMU academic admit, the requirement is top quarter plus 1300, not top 50%.”</p>
<p>Btw, I do not think so! </p>
<p>The top quarter requirement is for NON residents only, and the top 25% for Texans starts in the fall of 2006. </p>
<p>“Future applicants will also be required to submit a personal essay, starting in the fall of 2005. New automatic admissions requirements starting in Fall 2006 will require students to score a minimum of 1300 SAT, with no lower than a 600 on each section, and place in the top 25 percent of their graduating high school class.”</p>