Toxic Older Brother

This is long. Sorry…

Hi everyone. I put this on the parents forum because I can use some parental advise.

I’m going to be transferring to a small LAC in Florida this year and I’m actually excited for the first time in forever. I spent my first year in a humungous public school in Colorado but I didn’t feel so great about it (more about that later) and I felt like I might have needed some more schooling before I could go into the discipline I want to go into (im in a 3/2 Engineering Program). I also got a very generous merit scholarship and am excited to pursue opportunities in undergrad research at my new school.

All might seem great you may ask, but the truth is the year before now has been one of the worst years of my life. I just want to go on record and say that the main reason I had such a terrible time at my old school, and throughout the entire year, was purely because of my own mindset and my attitude towards my surroundings. But, I feel that that mindset was enabled by someone I initially trusted in my life, my brother. I’m not gonna tell my entire childhood story and crap, I’m just gonna tell you enough just for me to ask what can I do now going forward.

Ok so when I was in High school, my dream school, the place where I literally would have loved to have gone, loved the academics and the students, was super crazy over, and always imaged I would spend my undergrad studies at was Brown. To give more context, I attended a summer program there and fell in love with the group of friends I made, the professors I had, and the subjects (computer science and robotics) I studied. I was really fascinated by the Brain Gate projects they had there as well, although I didn’t have intentions on doing bio med, I really wanted to work with the research they were doing. And most prominent of all, my brother went there. He always told me how much it was paradise and amazing and how everything about it was perfect, even dragging me there during the weekends to see it and sitting in on lectures that really made me excited about the school. All of this was fine and nothing I have gripes over, but it gave me a bad president towards the school alone.

Now when it came time for admission, SURPRISE!!!, I was rejected. I was bummed out like anyone would be, but I tried to keep my best foot forward and see the opportunities I did have. However, my brother told me that “You can’t amount to anything without the institution that you want most.” He also constantly told me that I needed to take a gap year and that I need to go to an institution that was going to be prestigious. I tried not to let the prestige craze control me as much, but my brother kept enabling this sense of worthlessness in me because I was attending my other school, the one in Colorado. The entire summer before my freshmen year was filled with comments about how inferior I was.

Then comes freshmen year, already feeling like I was mess. I wish I approached school with a better mindset, especially first year of engineering school. Even when I started to get involved (I became part of an engineering team that worked on a project for the semester Design Expo, I participated in a code-a-thon, and I got to meet some interesting TA’s and students that were passionate about the stuff I initially loved about Brown) I still felt like I was not in the right place. My brother then proceeded to tell me how much none of that meant anything and convinced me to try to transfer out. While I did feel like I wanted to transfer (of my own accord not my brothers) my brother forced me to transfer in a misguided way and continued to shine the light of ‘hope’ for a second chance. He said that I should transfer to all these top tier institutions, under a field that I did not want to study because he thought it would be easier for me. During my second semester, I fell into a depressing state. My brother convinced me to take classes I didn’t like because it would “look good” for the universities. I forgot to eat, I stopped exercising, and I stopped seeing friends that my brother told me were inferior. I continued to believe in his comments about “you need to go to an institution that you’ll feel proud of the name” and “only Ivy league students change the world and have an amazing undergrad experience.” I was so stupid for believing him for a second.

My epiphany came near the end of my second semester from my mother. She told me that I sounded completely miserable and I shouldn’t listen to my brother at all because he was having problems too (ironically enough after graduating he never got a job and moved to New York and my dad paid for all his living expenses including a new apartment, I’ll elaborate that later). I realized I had to take matters into my own hands and start living the life I needed to live. I eventually got rejected by all the schools my brother told me to transfer to, but in that time, I applied to schools that seemed more in my range of fit. It was a little to late for some options but I still found a great school, the one that I’m going to this fall yay!

Once I left for the summer, I started an internship for a startup back home in Miami, I started working out again which helped my mood, and I started getting excited for my new school. Things have been going amazing. Unfortunately, my Brother still comes to the house, because he sometimes feels homesick from spending too much time partying and “networking” in New York. He blatantly insults me for the rejections I got and about the decisions I’ve made. He tells me the school I’m going to is filled with rich spoiled kids that not give me a stimulating environment. I try to ignore him, but his words still infected my brain a bit. I have made large strides in trying to forget all the bad things he’s told me, but he still manages to pop up in the worst timing.

I try to talk to my dad about what I can do and I told him to stop subsidizing him. He told me that “I don’t agree with anything your brother has said, but I will continue to support him as long as he wants, he is my son and I care about him” even though my brother overtly insults my dad every single second he gets. I really am pissed that I was affected by such a toxic person. He continues to insult my choice of studies, my school, me in general and I want him to leave the house, but he will never leave as long as my father continues to support him. What do I do. Sometimes throughout the day, he just bursts into a fit of rage and continues to insult me and say I’m a spoiled idiot who can’t think for himself. Any advice would be helpful, thanks for reading.

TL:DR
My brother is toxic and tells me I have no chance of being happy if I don’t go to BrownU. How do I tell him he’s wrong and continue to live my life and be happy with the opportunities I do have?

Finish college, graduate, and get a job. If he is still unemployed and living off your parents by then, the results will speak for themselves.

Brown is a great university, but it doesn’t sound as if it transformed your brother into a happy and fulfilled person. Frankly, no one who was comfortable in his own skin would behave in the manner you describe. You need to do your best to stay out of his way and ignore him, now that you realize what a negative effect he has had on your mental health.

Your father’s relationship with him is really not something you should interfere in, unless the situation is extreme and exploitative to the point of serious damage. (If, for example, you knew that your brother was stealing from or defrauding your parents.) It sounds like your parents support YOU just as they support him. Parental love is not a zero sum game. You may think that it is bad that your father is enabling him, but you should stay out of it. Concentrate on your own relationship with your parents. In the long run that is what will matter.

When you go off to your new school, this will all be easier. Until then, try to concentrate on the great things you are doing now, and stay out of his way.

BTW, consider whether part of his redoubled ire has to do with the fact that he sees you are now following your own path and making your own way in life, and you’re happy about it. Given that it sounds as if he has nothing to boast about with his college friends, imagine where that leaves him? Nowhere. He sounds like a pretty sad person, honestly.

Sounds like you just need to avoid your brother as much as possible. You don’t have to tell him anything. Just try not to be home when he is, and when he starts insulting you just walk away. Go to your room, put on your headphones and ignore him.

If your brother really is like you describe, there’s absolutely no possibility of reasoning with him or changing his mind on anything. Just stay away from him, mind your own business, and live your own life on your own terms.

You need to divest from your relationship with your brother.



From what it sounds like, his life isn’t going that well anyway, so you don’t need to feel inferior to him…



Stop wishing for your dad to stop helping him. Beyond that, you need to stop caring so much about his opinion of you. Don’t hate him, don’t obsess over him, be indifferent.



Focus on yourself. Stop telling him details about your life, stop asking for details about his. If he starts being rude to you, tell him you don’t want to talk to him.



It seems like your mother already told you what you need to do (and you agreed with what she said), you just need to actually do it.

You brother has serious issues and your father is enabling him. You see the situation correctly for what it is. Stop sharing information with him so that he has nothing to say to you. You don’t need to tell him anything about Brown – he is a broken person who can’t hear you.

If you feel like it, tell him you love him as your brother and hope he gets better so that you two can have a healthy relationship in the future. For now, and maybe forever, walk away from him. You don’t have to stand there and be poisoned.

When you get to school, attempt to stay there and away from this toxic person and the toxic air he brings to the family home. Discuss with your parents if there is an aunt or someone you can go stay with while he is in their home on school breaks. Decide this in advance so that you have a plan.

Part of your problem is that you are vulnerable to what he says, so your brother actually sways your choices. If you cannot resist him and continue to be affected, I suggest you see a counselor to help you get past the need to meet your brother’s distorted expectations.

The best revenge is a life will lived. Get through school, graduate, be employed - nothing will drive him crazier, especially if he isn’t allowed to grow up (pointing fingers at dad right now).

Don’t wast your breath telling him anything. Instead show him, Go off and have a great college experience. And after college you can get a job and have a happy and independent life.

Quit engaging with your brother. He can’t force you to do anything. The only control he has over your life is what you give him, so quit giving him that power. Live your own life. That means making your own decisions without relying on his input. Don’t give him details about your life or tell your parents how to manage their relationship with him.



I know someone remarkably similar to your brother. I think he’ll continue to insist you can’t think for yourself and run your life for you as long as you let him. However, stepping away doesn’t mean telling him he’s wrong or convincing your parents that they’re enabling him. There may be something wrong with him – these things often show up in early college years – so go do what you choose to do to advance your own life and let your parents deal with him.

This all seems to,trouble you. That being the case, I would suggest you see someone at the counseling center at your college. Maybe they can help guide you as you work through this family dynamic you can’t seem to shake on your own.

Thanks so much for the responses. I am aware that my exposure to him does affect me in a negative way and that I should keep my distance. The problem is, my family really does not like it if I were to just stay away from him and they want me to support him. “El es tu ermano” they would say all the time (we’re Latino, so the whole blood is thicker than water is like 10 times greater). And while I don’t nessisarily hate him, I just wish he would not pry into my college desisions and would be more understanding towards what I want to achieve.

It sounds like your brother feels lousy about his life, and since misery loves company he’s trying to drag you down with him. He’s feeding off of your response so the best path may be not to give him much of one.



You can disengage while not totally ignoring him. You need a stock response for every time he’s negative with you, something like, “I love you but I’m not going to discuss this with you.” Repeat this every time he tries to denigrate your choices, then change the subject. If he asks why you won’t talk with him about it, you don’t owe it to him to let him make you miserable. Just say, “I’m just not going to” and again change the subject.



It’ll either work or drive him crazy and either way you win.

You can only work on yourself, you can’t change him.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Family members affect us more than a random stranger or a friend would. Even though he isn’t good for you, you still care about your brother and what he thinks.

The important thing for your mental health is to surround yourself with people who know what is going on and who support you. Your parents are conflicted and IMO, aren’t really helping you or your brother, even though they mean well.

You need to set boundaries with your family. You can be part of their celebrations and other events, but make it clear that your college choices are not up for discussion. If anyone mentions Brown or some other related topic, don’t respond. Talk about the weather, or politics or some other subject that you find acceptable. After a while, they’ll give up because they can’t get the desired response from you.

But you shouldn’t give up! You’re doing the right thing and you will succeed.

Sounds like your brother may have some traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder - lack of empathy, the need to be the center of attention, the need to be agreed with all the time, disregard for others’ opinions, belittling others to feel better and smarter. There are many websites with info. You can research to see if the description fits your relationship with your brother. General recommendations for dealing with a toxic, narcissistic person are to eliminate/limit contact. If you must have contact with him, you could try using some neutral responses to his badgering comments, such as:

“Hmm, that’s interesting.”

“Really.”

“I can see you feel very strongly about this.”

My family’s culture(Chinese-American) is similar in some ways in this regard with one notable exception.

Familial support in my extended family/subculture, support should always go from the older generation/sibling/relative to the younger…not the other way around

Frankly, the way the older brother is treating you is a disgrace IMO and you’d be well within your rights to not only no longer associate/“support”* him, but also no longer regard him as the older sibling.

I had an older cousin 10+ years older than me attempt to not only belittle me, but also attempt to physically bully me at 15. Despite his being 6’3"(nearly a foot higher than I was back then), being well-built, and outweighing me by more than 100 pounds, solved the issue by decking him and sending him to the floor**.

With the exception of his mother, everyone else in the family who were witnesses felt he was 100% culpable and had it coming for attempting to physically intimidate me…especially considering his great size and age seniority over yours truly. Incidentally, this is one of a multitude of reasons why he’s the least respected member of my generation.

  • This idea of the younger sibling/relative....especially if they're minor/young adults expecting to support older siblings/relatives would be considered absurd by most in my family so it'd be an exceedingly strange thing to ask. At least that's one good thing about being one of the youngest members of my generation.

** My only advantage was that I had some experience with schoolyard/street fistfights in elementary/middle school during the tail end of NYC’s high crime era(1980’s - early '90s).

Stop listening to your brother. Make your own decisions. Your brother is probably miserable and depressed. He’s using his elitist attitude of “I’m better than you because I went to an Ivy League university” to cover up his embarrassment that he doesn’t have a job and he’s living off of his parents.

For your own sanity and for your own life and your own happiness, you need to make your own decisions. Slow or stop the information train with your brother. Call him, but maybe don’t call quite as often. And don’t ever make any big life decisions ever again based on your brother’s opinion.

Your brother is jealous. He just won’t ever admit it. He’s too proud and too embarrassed to admit it. Your dad is not doing him any favors. Your dad is just enabling him.

Part of your brother’s problem is that he has completely bought in to the notion that Brown is the best. That you didn’t get in was a shock to him. He got in, so his sibling should too. And if not there, then certainly a peer institution because while not Brown, they still are close enough in perceived quality. Most people grow out of this attitude over time and with increased life experience, but some never do. Let’s hope that your brother does!

Thanks everyone, I think everything you’ve all said is very helpful.