<p>^^^
At least they could use black cable ties??</p>
<p>From the directions on that page, it looks like the floormats and cars do use the hook system. On my car, the hook is near the door. The tie-wrap fix is in addition to the retaining hook. The fix uses two tie-wraps, one near the door and the other near the console. It appears to me that the single hook system was insufficient and that the inside of the mat (closer to the console) must be pivoting on the hook near the door to interfere with the accelerator pedal.</p>
<p>I wonder if they removed the spikes from the bottom of the floormat as I’ve found zero movement with the spikes and the single-hook in 10 years of driving. It’s interesting that this problem only affects certain models (Camry, Prius, ES*) - I wonder if the mats are different (like no spikes). It appears that using a non-OEM floormat doesn’t necessarily fix the problem given the parameters of the recall. It’s also interesting in that this is a problem with 2010 vehicles.</p>
<p>I thought that I’d bump up this thread again. Toyota has finally acknowledged the situation.
I never bought the initial idea that the floor mats were to blame.</p>
<p>Me neither. I have an ES350, and am taking it in next week. There is no way the floor mat could cause a problem: there’s a fairly deep depression under the gas pedal, the floor mat has a big cut-out at that point, and the mat is firmly anchored - I’ve never had it shift at all. Although the recall is for floor mats only (the pedals on the Lexus are made in Japan, and are different from the US-made ones that are involved in the recall for Camrys, etc.), the Lexus service guy told me that they will do a software upgrade that will make sure the brake overrides any other signal. Ultimately, I think this is an electronics issue rather than anything mechanical, but since I don’t know much about cars I could be wrong.</p>
<p>I thought the floor mat problems and the accelerator pedal problems were separate and distinct. I have a 2007 Camry Hybrid. It was not in the pedal problem recall but I did indeed have 2 separate incidents of unintended acceleration last year. The dealer did something to the floor mats and I haven’t had a problem since.</p>
<p>And now there is an announced problem with the brakes on the 3rd generation Prius, which hit showrooms Jan. '09.</p>
<p>I think that NHTSA wants Toyota to investigate electronics issues while Toyota would obviously rather prefer this to be a simple mechanical problem. Everyone that has had to replace a computer in their car that I know has complained about the price. Typically $300 to $1,600. Diagnosing the problem would be a huge headache too. Perhaps we need better data monitoring in cars with sophisticated computer systems to better improve the odds of figuring out state and memory data on failures.</p>
<p>[Apple</a> Founder: Toyota Problem is Software - ABC News](<a href=“Apple Founder: Toyota Problem is Software - ABC News”>Apple Founder: Toyota Problem is Software - ABC News)</p>
<p>“Apple computers co-founder Steve Wozniak told ABC’s Brian Ross that he believes the problem with his Toyota was not gas pedals, but software. Wozniak also said he been trying to get the attention of Toyota and the government’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for several months without success.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html[/url]”>http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html</a></p>
<p>and again,
<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
<p>It would be of interest to know something of the instances where this has actually happened.</p>
<p>Regrettably, as we saw with the Audi situation years ago, eyewitness/participant information is not reliable.</p>
<p>The mats can be a problem if they are not attached to the restraints. Its not something that most people are educated enough to pay attention to. The rubber ones that some people add in the winter are particularly an issue. The mat issue is an automotive issue not confined to Toyotas. </p>
<p>The reporting on all these issues is close to useless. It boils down to “some people are saying there have been undesired acceleration incidents with certain Toyota models”. Which models, how many incident reports, and under what circumstances? We do know of the CHP incident, which was deadly. And there is reason to believe that one may have been mat related. What about the others? Is there a source I am missing? </p>
<p>I said in my older post that it would be disturbing if there were a way for the electronic accelerator controls to cause an issue. It would be useful to have a list of all cars from all manufacturers which are designed in that way.</p>
<p>Edit: Wozniak’s observation that he can recreate his unintended acceleration should be reviewed instantly.</p>
<p>I believe that there were 2,000 incidents and 6 deaths reported. I think that there are about 2.6 million Toyotas under the recall.</p>
<p>I used to do corporate engineering support and a reproducible case was always the most desirable. Sometimes we just had crash dumps. Sometimes we would look at the error code and then examine the related code to see if there was an obvious bug.</p>
<p>^ Washington Post reports that in 2007 NHTSA responded to 26 unsolicited complaints of sudden unwanted acceleration in Lexus and Camry models by sending a survey to all 1,986 registered owners of the Lexis ES 350 in the state of Ohio. Of those, 600 responded to the survey, with 59—approximately 3% of all the Lexus ES 350 owners in the state, and 10% of those responding to the survey—reporting a similar problem with unwanted acceleration. That’s an extraordinarily high percentage. It was after that survey that Toyota decided to recall the floor mats, though the Post reports that 24 of the survey respondents indicating unwanted acceleration problems “did not report having the floor mats.” (Odd wording; I guess it leaves open the possibility they had 'em & just didn’t say so).</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020304056.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010020204001]washingtonpost.com[/url”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020304056.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010020204001]washingtonpost.com[/url</a>]</p>
<p>It seems to me that’s enough evidence to think there’s a real safety issue here, whatever the cause. The bigger problem for Toyota, however, may be a perception problem. This is a company that’s built an incredibly strong brand mainly on its reputation for product quality and reliability. That kind of goodwill can vanish overnight if the perception sets in that Toyota’s vehicles are unsafe, and/or that Toyota is having trouble accurately diagnosing and fixing the problem, and/or that the company has been slow to respond and indifferent to the safety of its customers. And the shifting explanations—there’s no problem, it’s driver error consisting of improper positioning of the floor mats, it’s the floor mats themselves, it’s defective accelerator pedals produced by a third-party supplier, it’s some combination of all of these, with others suggesting the problem may be electronic and Toyota vigorously denying it—tend to reinforce these negative perceptions.</p>
<p>I heard about the Lexus accident in thr San Diego area on NPR yesterday. While the car accelerated out of control, someone inside made a 911 call and I was able to listen to part of this recording yesterday. Four people died in this accident.</p>
<p>There was also conversation with a woman who experienced this in her Prius. she was following a group of bikers (her husband and freinds) foing at about 45 mph. The car suddenly accelerated to 70mph. She was not able to shift it to neutral, she basically jammed her brakes and the car did eventually stop after the brakes have melted and fused with the wheel. She claimed it was not the gas pedal, which she was able to use normally but which did absolutely nothing .
Too much electronics in the cars nowdays. I think it will be very dificult to re-created.</p>
<p>We do not own Toyota.</p>
<p>The Prius has dual-drive so you have to control which one or both is supplying power and that means drive by wire. I used to work in the field of serviceability engineering. That’s an area where you design things into the product to make it easier to diagnose problems. When there’s a fatal problem, you dump process memory and then you examine it later. Or you set up failure codes and a database of the codes. In the case of a car where this might not be considered a failure condition, you need to record information leading up to the incident - like a black box device.</p>
<p>I have a 2008 Toyota Highlander. With only 2 more payments left on the car, this news isn’t something that I want to hear. So far, our model is not on the recall list but I’m still concerned and wondering if this issue may expand to additional models.</p>
<p>I have an older Lexus so these developments have me worried. I spent the last half hour googling. Looks like my vehicle has the darn electronic throttle system that may be contributing to this problem. Seem that German vehicles have fail safe system programmed in to give priority to the brake when both the brake and accelerator are engaged. Toyota did NOT go this way…apparently to save $. I’m calling Lexus to see if they can install this…not holding out much hope though. At least I think I know what to do if it malfunctions…
[Toyota</a> slow to add brake override technology | cincinnati.com | Cincinnati.Com](<a href=“Cincinnati News, Sports and Things to Do | Cincinnati Enquirer”>Cincinnati News, Sports and Things to Do | Cincinnati Enquirer)</p>
<p>An interesting article. I don’t love the electronic throttle idea generally. Of course, all current aircraft operate that way too. </p>
<p><a href=“Autoblog Sitemap”>Autoblog Sitemap;
This article implies that the software is being modified to allow the brake over-ride.</p>
<p>toneranger, have you checked to see if your particular Lexus has any TSBs issued? You can check here: [url=<a href=“http://www.lexustsb.com/]LexusTSB.com[/url”>http://www.lexustsb.com/]LexusTSB.com[/url</a>].</p>
<p>Not in a Toyota, Lexus or Audi, but this happened to me years ago. It’s still a scary memory to this day. It’s funny - the dealer refused to acknowledge and blamed the floor mats just as in this situation. When the same thing happened again shortly thereafter, I got rid of the car.</p>
<p>dadx…interesting. </p>
<p>Booklady…thanks for the link…no luck. </p>
<p>My vehicle was one of the first with this new electronic throttle system. A real oldie compared to the cars on the recall list.<br>
I’m not feeling very good about it right now even though it’s never given me any trouble. I have a blackberry! (reputed to be interfering with this system). Great. </p>
<p>I’ll call the dealer but I’m sure I won’t get anywhere. There’s a class action lawsuit that involves my make and year -just found that out today. Maybe they’ll expand it. Seems like Toyota is in BIG trouble.</p>
<p>What year is your car? I have a 2000 Avalon and was guessing that I was safe. It has 190K on it and never had a UI problem. I also drove an Audi 5000 for quite some time. It was a manual so no UI problems either.</p>