<ol>
<li>Check out this link. It’s not on the recall list but it’s clear that it would help to have the brake override.</li>
</ol>
<p>I have a 2001 Highlander. I think I got in under the wire, so to speak. </p>
<p>How hard would it be to fix if it turns out to be a software problem with the electronic throttle mechanisms? I would think the best PR would be to install the brake over ride on all recalled models. This is the only way they will recover the trust of the public in their product.</p>
<p>Can’t see your link, toneranger.</p>
<p>Well, I have a 2007 Corolla and it’s not on the recall list, so I’m very much hoping that it’s safe. Especially since I let my son drive it sometimes when he’s home.</p>
<p>It would take lots of power and heat to actually fuse brakes. For about a decade I had a Porsche race car and did many hard hard braking stops without any hint of a problem in half hour cycles. The worst was some cracked rotors but that was due to having holes drilled in them for lighter weight.</p>
<p>I have two newish Toyotas with no problems. I’ll keep driving them till they call me to get the fix.</p>
<p>Well, Honda doesn’t have the brake overide system either.
From a recent Post article:</p>
<p>Toyota, moreover, is not the only automaker to eschew the fail-safe technology.</p>
<p>In an e-mail, Honda spokeswoman Christina Ra said that “Honda and Acura vehicles do not apply any override logic between brake and accelerator pedal inputs. . . . We continue to accept application of the accelerator and brake pedals as representing the driver’s intention.”</p>
<p>But experts said that the value of the brake override systems is that they can mitigate acceleration problems no matter where they come from. Toyota, as well as the NHTSA, appear to have struggled in diagnosing exactly what is causing the trouble.</p>
<p>“A brake override system can paper over a multitude of mistakes,” Kane said.</p>
<p>You can warp rotors doing a lot of mountain driving.</p>
<p>The thing about software fixes is that you can introduce bugs while fixing problems so a lot of code review and testing is indicated in any kind of software fix.</p>
<p>[Toyota</a> Recalls 3.8 Million Cars for Acceleration Problem :: South Carolina Lawyer Blog](<a href=“http://www.southcarolinalawyerblog.com/2010/01/toyota_recalls_38_million_cars.html]Toyota”>Toyota Recalls 3.8 Million Cars for Acceleration Problem — South Carolina Lawyer Blog — January 7, 2010)
Sorry, I forgot to include this link in a prior post - shows a list of Toyotas with the electronic throttle system (second list) </p>
<p>BC, I agree about the risk of messing with electronics. I don’t know what the answer is though…other to buy one of those german cars.</p>
<p>I have friends with $60,000 BMWs and Audis and they have problems too. Basically the incredible complexity of those cars can mean oddball problems down the road. They do a good job putting in mechanical backup systems should the electronics fail which is good but these, as you can guess, add to cost. I drove German cars for 19 years and they were wonderful to drive but maintenance costs were horrendous.</p>
<p>Some of the wonderful engineering doesn’t work so well down the road when it has to be maintained.</p>
<p>In addition to Audi’s unintended acceleration problem related to pedal placement, they also had problems with their hydraulic systems. It was one system that provided power steering and power brakes retaining pressure in a part called “the bomb”. There were five expensive parts to the system and four of them were prone to hydraulic fluid leaks. This stuff ran $12 to $20 per quart so many owners just kept adding this stuff to avoid expensive replacement parts. Leaks eventually got to the point where it was more expensive to buy fluid than to replace the part.</p>
<p>If you had a failure, you’d lose steering and brakes.</p>
<p>Wonderful engineering, right?</p>
<p>My car is in there. I’d be curious to see the cars involved in the reported failures. I would also guess that Toyota has used multiple electronic throttle control systems over the last ten years and it would be interesting to see if there are any patterns in reported failures.</p>
<p>What happens is you’re driving along down a road at a low speed, slightly hitting the brake pedal as you’re approaching a needed stop (stop sign, light or car in front of you). For a second or more however, the brakes fail to grab and you keep on going at the same speed and that car in front of you comes closer. It is a frightening sensation. Naturally, you push hard then on the brake pedal (which shifts it out of regenerative hybrid brake mode into physical brake mode) and you uncomfortably rock as the car stops suddenly. </p>
<p>True life experience, December 2009 with my teens and many times before that in our Toyota 2006 Highlander Hybrid (reported to Toyota and NTSB)</p>
<p>You know, I think it’s interesting that the NTSB has required Toyota to redo the system on the recalls to include the fail safe for braking. Well what about the older vehicles like mine? They started using those systems back in 2001. Are the older ones safer? I doubt it. </p>
<p>I just have to keep reminding myself that this doesn’t happen often - so I don’t worry too much. Plus, I know what to do now, if it happens. You gotta keep calm like that pilot guy over the Hudson. </p>
<p>Anwway, I haven’t had much luck with cars in the past. I had a series of Subarus that broke down on me…on a major bridge…in a busy intersection. So I gave up on them and went with an older Lexus. Thought I was golden. NOT.</p>
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</p>
<p>How in the world did they not observe this effect in testing?</p>
<p>Is the software ‘firmware’ on a chip - anybody know?</p>
<p>When I read all these potential electronic problems I’m glad I kept my old pre-electronics cars that only use a an alternator and a points distributor with almost bulletproof mechanical fuel injection. You give a little gas mileage but can always get it home.</p>
<p>When I first noticed it after purchase 5/06, I immediately returned to my local Toyota dealer and asked what was going on. I asked for the main mechanic and he took my Highlander Hybrid for a test drive, came back, said he didn’t sense a failure of braking. But, he informed me, Toyota had just sent out a directive from central office, recommending download of a new software package, but was vague about what it was for, yet encouraged I have it added. I sat around for three hours while they downloaded it, hoping all was well. It wasn’t, and I called Toyota in New York, but they said they had no information on a brake problem. I kept visiting my Toyota dealer, they checked the brakes, but said no one detected when test driving what I was describing. In retrospect, I am suspicious Toyota has known about hybrid brake problems since 2006, ergo the soft ware package update for the brakes.</p>
<p>This December '09 incident was very dangerous, putting us in the direct path of a car traveling at 40 mph on the main cross street ahead of us. Sure we stopped inches away to see the car speed by, but it was enough to make my teens and I break a sweat. I did notify the NTSB and Toyota.</p>
<p>For some reason, I can’t get in to these links. I have a 2006 Highlander (not a hybrid). Does anyone know if this is in the recall? I don’t for one minute, believe this is a carpet problem or a brake foot problem.</p>
<p>The 2006 Highlander is listed as having the electronic fuel control. The article would be far more useful with a link to the base data. I would like to see the models that customers reported problems with to determine whether or not I should be at all concerned though if it didn’t happen in 190K miles, I don’t think that it will happen in the next 100K.</p>
<p>The hybrid braking issue is as reported by give’rwingsmom. The issue is that in those cars the braking system is used to “store” the kinetic energy of the car to a flywheel, I believe, which helps conserve energy and charge the batteries. So sometimes when you are braking, what is slowing the car is that the wheels are connected to the flywheel, and the inertia of getting the flywheel spinning is draining the car of its momentum. In normal braking, frictional pads are applied to the rotors attached to the wheels, and the car slows with the energy dissipated as heat. </p>
<p>Apparently, for some reason, its necessary to switch between these two methods of braking, and what is happening in the Prius is that drivers are reporting a “lag” at the switchover point…during which there apparently ain’t no braking for a second…which is actually quite a long moment when you want to be stopping.</p>
<p>That phenomenon is related solely to hybrids…and maybe solely to Prius, as I understand it.</p>
<p>Many articles on the issue in the NY Times this morning: </p>
<p>[A</a> Lawsuit Raises More Questions for Toyota](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/business/05recall.html]A”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/business/05recall.html)</p>
<p>[Toyotas</a> Chief Steps Forward to Apologize for Problems](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/06/business/global/06toyota.html]Toyotas”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/06/business/global/06toyota.html)</p>
<p>[The</a> Electronic Systems That Make Modern Cars Go (and Stop)](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/technology/05electronics.html]The”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/technology/05electronics.html)</p>
<p>I was at the dealer this morning to drop off my car for a major maintenance. Lots of people sitting in the showroom waiting for their cars to get the shim fix. I spoke to the service writer and he said that it’s been crazy. They get a shipment of the repair parts every day and they run out before the end of the day so I guess you need to make an appointment for the recall. I had an appointment for service today and I hope that they finish it by the end of the day. They loaned me a new Corolla. The driver’s floormat was removed and there was a piece of protective plastic that stuck to the floor in its place. The passanger floormat was normal.</p>
<p>I spoke to a coworker that received a recall notice for his recent Prius. It doesn’t say what the recall repairs will be. He mentioned the braking issue as he was in an accident a few weeks ago and he basically described what was described in this thread with the regenerative braking. He noticed a lag when he hit the brakes.</p>
<p>There was a new article out this morning on the problem with the Prius. It appears that driving on bumpy roads can result in brake delay and that it is a software error. I will mention this to a coworker that was involved in a crash recently in his Prius where he noticed a braking delay.</p>