trading up schools: how good is good enough?

Transfer Students
1

I’m currently a HS senior and I’ve committed to SUNY Geneseo for next year. In a sentence, the reason I’m asking this is because I stopped doing all homework and classwork through junior and senior year (long story) and completely shot my chances of getting into an excellent school. I want a second chance, and I’m already considering transferring.

MY QUESTION IS: Given the relative selectivity/prestige/whatever of Geneseo, which schools would be good enough to merit transferring after a year? I want to transfer for greater academic strength.
If that’s not clear: I don’t think transferring to Richmond (My first choice and ED. I was rejected) would make sense. I don’t think transferring to Davidson would make sense either (loved it, grades too low to apply), but Georgetown probably would and Amherst definitely would. That’s just my opinion; please disagree with me if you want to.
I know that not all of the Amhersts of the world are transfer friendly, but that is another discussion. For now, all I want to know is where you would draw the line for a reasonable unreasonable transfer. However, if you could point out which elite schools are the most transfer friendly, that would be much appreciated. My current list includes: Cornell, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Tufts, UCLA, Berkeley, USC, UVA, UNC, Wesleyan, Emory, Penn, and William and Mary. Correct me if I’ve made any mistakes. I’m mostly into smaller schools, but I wouldn’t ignore any school because of size.
I know that my stats are essential to this, so here we go:
2220 SAT (750CR/720M/750W), didnt study. 790 US history SAT2, failed APUSH and didnt study. Got straight 4s on APs psych, US, english language; retaking english this year, never studied for anything. I go to a rigorous HS and will graduate with 5 APs and several honors. My GPA is currently 2.84. as the transfer essay is very important, mine (if i end up deciding to transfer) will kick a lot of ass. My guidance counselor said that my commonapp essays were among the best she’d ever read and writing is my strongest suit. Besides that, i’m Latino and Jewish and I’m a legacy at Yale and Columbia if it means anything.

I’m asking the question because I know that the answer is based entirely on subjective interpretations of colleges and transitions between them, and that many people would answer differently. Based on my research, I think that a school with 75th percentile SAT scores at or above 750 in all three sections would be prestigious enough to warrant a transfer. If I’m wrong about this -either using SAT scores for incoming freshmen as a gauge of selectivity/prestige/whatever or the cutoffs of schools- definitely correct me.

I already know that someone’s going to say that I shouldnt want to transfer before I get to Geneseo. They’re right. Although I like Geneseo, It doesn’t have neuroscience, my preferred major. I’m also obsessed with prestige, just like everyone else on collegeconfidential. Besides all that, transferring is just an idea of mine and I understand that it will be a tough decision to make, especially when I’m settled into college. I also know that everything is dependent on my grades in college and that my HS grades dont make things look too good. However, I’m doing better now and I’m very motivated to do well once I get to college.

TL,DR: Given the relative selectivity/prestige/whatever of Geneseo, which schools would be good enough to merit transferring after a year? I want to transfer for greater academic strength.

Thanks in advance for the input, y’all

2

So your GPA now is around a B- average? You will basically need a 3.9+ at SUNY to merit a serious jump. I am at at top 30 school in the nation currently undergoing the transfer process, most top schools require a 3.7+ from peer schools. It is quite obvious SUNY Geneseo is not quite on the same level as these schools. Perhaps a 3.5 could get you into a state school like Wisconsin, but objectively speaking, you need to evaluate whether or not you can perform to that standard next year. Having SAT scores and essays are nice, but the GPA ties the whole thing together.

I think the greatest consideration that needs to be made is a) how well can you really perform next year? b)once you reach that prestige level, will you be able to perform there?

3

Your old GPA will most likely bring you down.

I was in your situation–last two years of HS saw a decline, I didn’t study for SATs, yet still took all APs, etc. I knew I was gonna try to transfer since late junior year. Local uni I ended up in to doesn’t have my major, so my essays focused around that, and how the school wasn’t challenging enough, etc. etc. Academic reasons are pretty solid (compared to social/location reasons), your essays will be fine. Moreso if you can write some outstanding ones, which I’m sure you could.

Your old gpa is going to hold you back, though. I decided to transfer after my sophomore year to give me a better chance. However, my high school GPA was a 3.4 unweighted at a top 100 US HS, and 5.6 weighted. Heck, I wasn’t even confident enough. Your gpa is definitely going to hinder you, so you might have a better shot after a second year. That’s also assuming you get as close to a 4.0 as possible at your uni.

By all means, you can always still try to transfer after your freshman year. For me, it felt like too much effort (especially since I was recovering from whatever happened to me during HS) and I didn’t have as much to work with to really showcase improvement and desire in my intended major, so I decided to wait until soph year. It ended up being a good choice for me, since most of my major credits transfer, I went for free, and I still got what I wanted in the end.

Your school list is fine. Mine included some of those schools as well.
It’s good that you’re looking at schools with more generous transfer admissions. It’s hard for anyone to get into the really prestigious schools like Yale and Columbia as a transfer, even with a 4.0.

Here’s the thing: you can surely try. My transfer school list included mostly Ivies + SM and was based on prestige. At the end though, I don’t know if I really just wisened up during college or what, but I applied to a practical bunch that had both what I wanted and a reasonable transfer rate. Only two ended up being Ivies. It costs money for the fees, so that was a limiting factor (Stanford was on my list, but it’s just another school to me–surely not a dream–and with a 1% admissions rate, $90 fee, and boatload of essays, it was easy just to save it for grad school).

Your school selection is reasonable. You could just keep it the way it is. I also applied to Brandeis, UMich (where I’ll be going for physics/math next year), Duke, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Reed, and Carleton. I don’t understand why you don’t think you could transfer to Richmond or Davidson though. You could still keep them on the list, their essays just won’t be similar to what you have for Berkeley, for example. You could apply wherever you want for whatever reason.

4

@whatisbusiness and @eyo777 , thank you so much! To address what you said:
Whatisbusiness, you’re right. Although this is all dependent on my GPA next year, I’d like to know about something thats less concrete and varies person to person; namely, the academic strength of certain schools relative to geneseo and what sort of school would make transferring a significant trade up
eyo777, you seem to have been in a similar situation to mine and your story was very helpful. On transferring after freshman/sophomore year, I’ll decide when I get there. The reason I don’t think Richmond or Davidson would make sense is because they aren’t that much better than Geneseo. I should clarify my main question based on this.
Given the difficulties and ordeals of transferring (leaving your friends behind, readjusting…) which schools would be good enough to make up for it?
Right now I’m using the 75th percentile SAT scores at 750 in all three sections as a linchpin. If anyone disagrees with that, correct me. That’s really what I’m looking for.

5

To shed some insight I had a 3.9+ my first year at a top school, just got rejected from Dartmouth.

Trading up is next to impossible.

6

Trading up is possible. My local uni is ranked in the 500s, my new one is ranked in the top 50, and top 15-10 in my fields of interest.

The rates of many schools make it a gamble. For some, only a couple of spots go to hundreds of applicants. A lot of it is really is luck. You can apply to those schools if you want, but have some “matches/backups” as well. For me, staying at my local uni wasn’t an option, so I decided to focus my time, energy, and money on schools with better transfer rates.

“Given the difficulties and ordeals of transferring (leaving your friends behind, readjusting…) which schools would be good enough to make up for it?”

You’re using your own metric and there’s nothing wrong with that. The choice is ultimately yours. My criteria wasn’t as rigid, I guess. For me, it just had to be a school in the top 100 (match/backup) and top 50 (ideal) on most rankings lists, plentiful in resources in my intended majors, and able to sufficiently prepare me for a top grad program. I had a long list that was narrowed down by time constraints, and for some schools, a lack of a compelling reason to want to go there besides “it’s prestigious.” (That’s not really enough to work.)

7

Not everyone is obsessed with prestige on CC. Many simply want to get into the best school given their academic record and financial constraints, and do well there.

Geneseo IS an excellent school. Why not do well there next year, and then transfer to a SUNY school that has neuroscience? If you still need prestige, then do a masters degree at an Ivy.

8

@eyo777 I don’t mean to be rude, but the requirements get exponentially more difficult between the top 50 and top 20. Between ranks 40-50 the average is around 40%, with the most difficult being BU at 28%. In the top fifteen, the transfer rate is between 1-13%, with Northwestern as the “easiest”. Trading up from a Top 500 to a top 50 is much different than trading up from a top 50 to a Top 15/20/

From this I will say you could probably get into W&M, they have an incredibly high transfer acceptance rate.

Link: http://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/stats/transfer-acceptance-rates/#.VUlJEGaYlho

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@MidwestDad3 I turned down Binghamton to go to Geneseo and I don’t want to transfer down.
@whatisbusiness Just for the record, Vanderbilt- currently #16 on USNews- has a transfer acceptance rate of 40% (376 accepted of 927 applicants, according to their website). Vandy is an exception, but it does prove that the top 20 just might be within reach. There are several exceptions, some of which I mentioned above as transfer friendly schools. If you think only top 20 schools would be a significant enough jump to justify a transfer, then thanks for your opinion
Even though I appreciate that you’re all doing my work for me by going over specific schools, I won’t really need that information for another year. I haven’t even graduated HS yet. What’s really important right now is determining what sort of trade up would justify the pains of transferring. I guess I should ask where exactly to draw the line. Would W&M or UNC make sense? Their SAT score averages are lower than 750 in all three sections (UNC’s are kinda close to Geneseo’s), but they’re still very prestigious. Just based on the scores, UNC may be falling off my list and schools like W&M or Emory are on the line. Again, drawing the line is more important at this stage of the process than determining whether or not Penn will accept me.
Just some relevant stats:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/transfer-students/1362873-transfer-acceptance-rates-at-the-top-25-schools-2011-collegeboard.html
http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/transfer/prospective/transferprofile.html
https://uadmissions.georgetown.edu/transfer/student-profile

10

@whatisbusiness I know. The OP isn’t trading up from a top 50 to a top 15/20 though.

I got into Vanderbilt. It’s ranked in the top 20 in US News. I still turned it down because it was worse in my majors. I got into a top 10/15 for my majors (top 30 according to US News), so I’m happy with my results.

You can go by US News for the top 20 and give it a shot, @leopoldofbelgium. But some questions:
Do you care about graduate school?
Do you want general layperson prestige from the school name or prestige in your major?
Why do you care so much about the SAT scores of the student body?

11

If you couldn’t handle 2 years of high school work, what makes you think you could handle of an elite education? Let go of your desire for an elite school. It’s over. When transferring, you have to provide a clear reason why you aren’t reaching your academic goals at Geneseo and saying you want a more prestigious degree is not gonna cut it. You messed up in high school, deal with the consequences.

12

@CaliCash I think that’s a bit harsh. During my last two years of high school I was struggling with depression and an addiction. I still ended up top 10 in my class, I just needed some time to turn things around. Everyone deserves a second chance.

13

@eyo777 In theory, yes, everyone deserves a second chance. But in reality, you made this bed, and you have to lay in it. Take responsibility for your actions. The schools you want don’t want students who run from accountability. Enjoy Geneseo. It’s a great school. If you get into another school, great, but don’t count on it. It’s highly competitive. You were rejected one time around. What compelling evidence are you gonna show to prove they should accept you a second time. If you still finished in the top 10 of your class, your GPA probably isn’t why you got rejected.

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@CaliCash Personally, I took accountability for my actions. I joined a fellowship that helped me quit and I completely changed my habits. It was hard as ****, but I did it. I also gave back to the community and showed leadership and initiative.
I actually wrote about this for my Vanderbilt supplement essay. Apparently they liked it enough.

Not sure if OP would have as strong of an “I changed” story. It would have to be stronger than mine considering his GPA. That’s why I recommend that he stay another year; distancing himself from his high school record would increase his chances (especially if he’s aiming for top 20s–he’s gonna need a lot, a lot of luck).

I know I got rejected the first time around because I applied to only Ivy Leagues my senior year and wrote crappy essays. Also, no real ECs to speak of besides gaming.

15

@eyo777 I thought you were the OP lol. Sorry

16

@CaliCash I was suspecting that. Your comments still stand though. :stuck_out_tongue:
You do have to show accountability to move significantly up in the ranks as a transfer.

17

“Do you care about graduate school?”
Probably. I can’t be absolutely sure but I think I’ll do it. You’re going to tell me that I’ll be able to go to a great grad school if I do well enough as an undergrad. You’re right and I’ll have to think about that…
“Do you want general layperson prestige from the school name or prestige in your major?”
I guess for my major. As of right now I’m into neuroscience (which Geneseo doesn’t have) but I also like architecture, art history, and foreign languages. I’m most concerned with being surrounded by really smart students and professors and having creative and research opportunities.
“Why do you care so much about the SAT scores of the student body?”
The SAT scores serve as a measure of a school’s selectivity. I decided this based on my own assumptions of the SAT’s role in admissions, so I don’t know if it’s a widely used measure of selectivity. I use it because it’s a concrete number that’s easy to work with. If there’s a better measure, please tell me.
@eyo777 , your essay was probably awesome. I don’t know if my story is quite as good, but I still have a lot to work with and I’ll manage.
@CaliCash Just to clear a few things up: I’m not running from accountability; I’m definitely going to enjoy Geneseo and if I don’t end up transferring, I’ll be fine. The evidence I’ll show to prove my validity will show that my HS grades don’t reflect my academic potential. I’m not necessarily going for a more prestigious degree: I want more opportunities and smarter peers. Finally, I messed up in HS because of a perfect storm of bad things. Although I should deal with the consequences (and I am), I’m not going to define my future based on those events and I definitely won’t be complacent because of them.

18

I am not sure chasing prestige is the least bit worthwhile. I’m pretty convinced it isn’t. But wanting to be surrounded by students excited by whatever they are studying is worthwhile. While there is obviously overlap in the types of students attending various schools there also tends to be a prevailing climate or personality, and frankly I’m too far removed from Geneseo these days to evaluate that school specifically, but you’d be hard put to find an critical mass of students at SUNY on fire about their academic pursuits. I can see craving that even if you encountered some problems in high school. You are most likely to get that at some of the schools some people think are prestigious-but not all. At some you will find the same grade grubbers you’ll find at a SUNY. The OP may not be the least interested in being in a place where students are excited about scholarly activity but I’m writing this for anyone in the future who might find them self in OP’s position and wants an intellectually energized campus.

So how can you transfer to one? Well the posters so far are making it all about GPA. Fair enough. That can work. You can follow suit, stay in that box, pray that a strong GPA with your scores will get you in and send out a slew of applications. Ho Hum squeeze a few more points out of your test score and go for extra credit…yawn…

Or you can start constructing a new academic trajectory that is likely to be attractive to colleges.

19

@lostaccount
“Or you can start constructing a new academic trajectory that is likely to be attractive to colleges.”
What does this mean? It seems like it is all about GPA.

20

Your question of trading up/transferring is a bit premature, in my opinion. It is fine to be thinking about what a next step might be, but better still, you will need to concentrate on your school work and the rest of the experience you will have at Geneseo starting soon. What courses do you want to take? Is there any preliminary reading or work you can do for any of those courses over the summer to get yourself ready to take the school by storm and do fantastically with your grades? Perhaps that is what @lostaccount means by a new trajectory. Get yourself off to a good start. Do well in classes. Pursue some of your outside interests (your EC’s) and make some new friends. Then see how you feel. You will have a much better sense of what you are looking for in a transfer school once you see what you’ve got at the school you are actually attending.