<p>With changes in Chicago recruitment and admission, it will not be true in 4 years.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Oh, it is pretty simple … it simply refers to one’s definition of intellectualism. The academic rigor of a school or the regular presence of a handful of true deep thinkers does not automatically translate into a campus filled with young intellectuals, or whatever terms applies to the young who display a different interest or pretends to do. The reality is that the term pseudo has to be attached to that oft-repeated intellectualism. </p>
<p>Fwiw, the differences of opinion have been expressed in a number of threads about the infamous uncommon essays and uncommon admission process. If one sees much intellectual challenge about writing about a giant jar of mustard, so be it. I saw it, and still do, as a silly exercise in mental masturbation. To each his own. And that was, in a sea of moronic subjects!</p>
<p>And, most importantly, the main issue was NOT that Chicago was or is a haven for great minds, but the intimation that it corners that market, and that the same type of students would be rarer on different campus. A intimation that was easily defied by the mere fact that most students who gained admission simply went to a better choice, or even simpler, never bothered to apply and picked a more selective school. </p>
<p>In the end, one has to accept that intellectual non-sense at face value.</p>
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<p>I think the yearning for intellectualism on this and other threads if not really a yearning for brilliance. Instead, it is for intellectual curiosity – for other students who are interested in thinking about things. Almost assuredly there won’t be much brilliance that that comes from a 19 year old who is intellectually curious, even those at Stanford or Yale. But it is more fun to hang out with people like that than with people without intellectual curiously. So a desire for intellectualism is really just a desire for a certain type of social life.</p>
<p>@quantmech wrote: “After all, Stanford is the school where an admissions staffer believed that an essay about shopping could show intellectual vitality.”</p>
<p>Meh. There is another school who commented that people with great grades and many APs were people who knew how to grind. I don’t think people don’t go to that school because people in admissions didn’t talk enough about intellectual vitality.</p>
<p>The “other school” mentioned in #84 has recently changed its public face, in terms of its admission web site and what is highlighted there–and all to the good, in my opinion. As it stood previously, if I had been a high school student last year with 2400 SAT I/2400 SAT II/4.0 UW GPA and a “gazillion APs,” I would have found the site so unfriendly that I would not have applied there. In the same circumstances, this year I would apply there. This may only affect a small number of students around the margin, but I don’t think the effect is zero.</p>
<p>I don’t know what xiggi has against Chicago. I think it is a genuinely intellectual place, of a certain ilk. There is a saying credited to Abraham Lincoln, “For those who like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing that they like.” I am not sure about the accuracy of the citation, but I endorse the sentiment. I happen to like the University of Chicago–quite a lot, in fact.</p>
<p>I think the question about the giant jar of mustard asked the student to consider why mustard was sold in gigantic jars in some stores (e.g., Sam’s Club). In my opinion, one could tell something about how a student thinks, from the student’s response to the question. Clearly there is some market for giant jars of mustard. What is it? Baseball/softball leagues that have concession stands; church picnics with barbeques; gigantic family reunions; something else? Would it tell you something about different regions if you knew where gigantic mustard jars were sold, and where they were unavailable? How long is it safe to keep and use an opened jar of mustard in different environments/climates, and why? Are gigantic jars of mayonnaise available, too, or not?</p>
<p>Also, why would people prefer to buy a gigantic jar of mustard, rather than multiple smaller jars? Is a gigantic jar more eco-friendly, assuming that the buyer has a use for that much mustard (lower ratio of packaging to content)?</p>
<p>There might be people on the Chicago threads claiming that Chicago corners the market on intellectualism. I doubt that anyone believes that. On the other hand, I would suspect that Chicago might have a smaller representation of “young men braying for money” (to borrow a phrase from Tom Wolfe) than some other highly ranked schools.</p>
<p>Oooh, and interesting questions about scaling effects! How does the strength of the packaging material need to vary with the size of the jar of mustard? This gets into some rather interesting physics.</p>
<p>Also, with regard to #84, Stanford at one point had an application question that more or less directly asked the students to illustrate their intellectual vitality. My point was that this was being interpreted by an admissions gatekeeper there in a way that would probably surprise most people. The discussion of intellectual vitality by admissions was secondary to the role that the admissions staffer’s values played in the selection process–which probably influenced the class composition somewhat.</p>
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<p>Despite the many attempts and the many threads on the issue, it seems obvious that I have not been able to properly convey that I have nothing AGAINST Chicago. Actually, I have tremendous respect for an institution that actively advocates the joys of learning for the sole purpose of learning. Well, I will try again: my issue is with Chicago’s PEOPLE who fall in the trap of excessive affectation to impress or ostentatiousness, especially when utterly unwarranted. </p>
<p>Although this started many years ago on CC, it does not take much of an effort to identify the obnoxious and annoying Chicago fanboy, as all it takes is clicking on the posts in this forum [University</a> of Chicago - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/]University”>University of Chicago - College Confidential Forums) and “follow” posters such as Truth123. </p>
<p>As far as the jar essay, here it is as submitted by a … high school student:</p>
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<p>And, as this thread shows, my opinion about the essays has not changed much 
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/222115-chicagos-2007-2008-essays-banner-year.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/222115-chicagos-2007-2008-essays-banner-year.html</a> This said, I am happy that my predictions about the (then) possible changes in terms of admission would benefit Chicago and allow it to align itself with more selective schools … came to full fruition. </p>
<p>Being less uncommon and less obnoxious does work sometimes!</p>
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<p>Surprisingly, it is not “about a point in time” and “one application question!” The entire admission process and selection at Stanford has one objective, and that is to identify students who demonstrate excellence in various forms, but the predominant aspect is one of … intellectual vitality or brilliance (as Dean Shaw) calls it. </p>
<p>Here’s a tidbit:</p>
<p>From <a href=“College Admission”>College Admission;
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<p>Stanford was founded on the principle that the University is open and accessible to all students interested in pursuing higher education. We review candidates from every conceivable background, and the common denominator is that each has aspired to be successful academically, intellectually and in the pursuit of activities they are passionate about. There is no profile of the right student for Stanford. We thoroughly and respectfully consider each candidate’s unique background, accomplishments and personal qualities. We value students who demonstrate intellectual vitality and who radiate a passion for learning and inquiry. Stanford students cannot be typecast because they bring such a broad array of talents and perspectives. Ultimately, we seek students who will be deeply engaged in all of the possibilities of a Stanford education with the intention to benefit from and contribute to the vibrancy of this place and our greater society. <<<</p>
<p>Or
<a href=“https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=625320365813[/url]”>Stanford Open Office Hours: Richard Shaw, Part 1 | Dean Richard Shaw is answering your questions about undergraduate admissions, financial aid, academics, and student life. Post questions and comments in... | By Stanford University | Facebook;
<p>Why look, there have been other threads on intellectualism (or lack thereof) at Stanford:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/1164518-pro-cons-stanford-2.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/1164518-pro-cons-stanford-2.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/672657-about-intellectuallism-stanford.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/672657-about-intellectuallism-stanford.html</a></p>
<p>I’d venture a guess that Stanford may have fewer of the obnoxious pseudo-intellectual types than some other schools. However, I think that obnoxious pseudo-intellectuality really had its heyday about 40 years ago. There seems to be less of it around, overall. Maybe the holdouts go to Chicago.</p>
<p>I still think that the mustard jar essay topic is perfectly ok.</p>
<p>I am all in favor of intellectual vitality, and of selecting students on the basis of that quality. An essay about shopping that demonstrates intellectual vitality? What, channeling Elle Woods of Legally Blonde?</p>
<p>Or possibly the pseudo-intellectuals morphed into hipsters.</p>
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<p>Never seen it … perhaps there was some well-hidden depth in that shopping adventure. Have a link? After all, didn’t Teilhard de Chardin write “The universe as we know it is a joint product of the observer and the observed” Or was it Dr. Sheldon Lee Cooper? I might be confused. :)</p>
<p>PS For full disclosure, my younger sister wrote her roommate essay about spending time in an office supply store. The essay, however, had nothing to do with the products sold, but everything to do with relationships. Perhaps, people who wrote about needing a two-feet tall jar of mustard when tailgaiting at the football game at Chicago also described relationships. Of course, that also means they’d have a passion for yesterday’s leatherheads!</p>
<p>The essay itself wasn’t posted. However, there was at one point a post of the opening lines of essays that Stanford admissions liked. I cannot say that I was particularly impressed by more than 1 or 2 of them.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I wrote some truly awful essays between the ages of 17 and 21, so I’m not really “casting asparagus” on the student writers (Dudley Herschbach-ism, Nobel laureate and Harvard professor).</p>
<p>Quantmech wrote: “After all, Stanford is the school where an admissions staffer believed that an essay about shopping could show intellectual vitality.”
…
“There was at one point a post of the opening lines of essays that Stanford admissions liked”
“I cannot say that I was particularly impressed by more than 1 or 2 of them.”</p>
<p>Perhaps the admissions office doesn’t judge essays based on their opening lines and the person showed intellectual vitality in the rest of the essay.</p>
<p>The Stanford admissions post was a list of the opening lines they liked, as opposed to the opening lines of essays they liked. They thought there was something good about the opening lines themselves. I will see later whether the web site is still up. But as I said, I’m not really “casting asparagus” on the writers.</p>
<p>@quantmech
Are you referring to this: </p>
<p>[Stanford</a> Magazine - Article](<a href=“Stanford Magazine - Article”>Stanford Magazine - Article) ?</p>
<p>These have nothing to do with the intellectual vitality essay. There are first lines for the Common App essays.</p>