transfer to find more activist student body?

Parents Forum
21

<p>This is slightly off-topic, but perhaps still worth addressing as it was mentioned by the OP:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I don’t have personal experience as a transfer, but this advice comes from one of my very good friends, who transferred away after his first year. With the exception of a few of his closest friends, and a few faculty members that he really felt he could talk to (rec writers, advisor), my friend didn’t discuss transferring. He didn’t want anyone to try and ‘guilt’ him into staying, and he didn’t want anyone fueling his negativity (“I hate it here, too…you’re so right…and…and…”). He also didn’t want to say anything until he was 100% sure that he was leaving, as he didn’t want to be seen as “The guy who doesn’t really want to be here.” </p>

<p>^ Personally, I thought this was a wise move, and I would recommend it (difficult though it might be). I’ve known multiple people who were ‘guilt-tripped’ into staying where they didn’t fit, and a few impressionable students who were talked out of staying somewhere that they did. Until your cousin is positive about leaving, this might be something to consider (esp. if she’s set on applying only to reaches, making it distinctly possible that she’ll remain at Bates).</p>

<hr>

<p>Back on track…</p>

<p>Since most transfer deadlines shouldn’t be for a few months, make sure your cousin is aware that she’s looking at reach schools, and that she needs to treat them as such. That means working her tail off this semester (might end up including an addendum that explains relatively low first semester grades + mentions upward trend, even though second semester won’t have finished), trying to get involved where she can (if activism is a priority, she should be involved with political, socially progressive, volunteer, etc. groups on campus), and making an effort to get to know at least one of her professors (OFFICE HOURS!) so she’ll have a shot at a strong rec that can address her abilities from a college-level perspective. Another mediocre semester won’t do her any favors. She’s looking at LAC’s, so the “soft stuff” can really mean a lot (ditto its absence).</p>

<p>Finally, it may or may not be productive (your call, perhaps depending on personality…) to set up a few hypothetical situations. “These are all great schools, but they’re all reaches. If you don’t get into any of them, will you be happy remaining at Bates? Would you be happier staying at Bates or going to school in the midwest/west?” If her view is that she wants to transfer to Vassar or stay at Bates, and nothing else, then fine…she can put all of her eggs in one basket. She just needs to plan well enough so that she doesn’t find herself stuck in any one position.</p>

<p>Also, you sound like a great cousin :)</p>

22

<p>To the OP- would also help to know more about the personality type. Some people are optimizers… they want everything to line up just so, and really need a lot of information and datapoints to make a decision. Others are happy with just fixing “the big thing” that’s bugging them (or a little thing that becomes a major irritant) and they’re comfortable with a lot of unknowns and realizing that there will undoubtedly be tradeoffs.</p>

<p>If your cousin needs to have everything lined up for her head to be on straight, than you might do her a kindness by encouraging her to stick at Bates at least through January 2009. She’ll have three semesters under her belt, will be able to get her grades up, will be able to demonstrate activism in the local community by that time so in fact she’d be a competitive candidate for a more prestigious school.</p>

<p>If she’s happy just fixing the activism thing… then there are probably 20 places worth applying to that she could get accepted to, and although there will be tradeoffs, she’ll have fixed the major thing that’s wrong in her eyes.</p>

23

<p>a couple more…
Not new england but still east coast-New College of Florida
Sarah Lawrence
Eugene Lang
a big school but on many lists for politically active students- GW
Tufts</p>

24

<p>I’m a sophomore transfer student, now a senior :)</p>

<p>Most important, I think for your cousin, is that she applies to places where she thinks the student body is much more engaging and then once accepted, she should VISIT them. That’ll definitely get her head straight on whether it’s worth transferring out of Bates, which is a fine school. I know of a Smith College student who applied there for freshman AND transfer admissions but was rejected both time. Now she’s made the most of her situation and is very happy that she didn’t leave. She still loves Bates though- just chose to deal with the reality that it’s just not the school for her.</p>

<p>For me, I was definitely looking for a different kind of student body in my transfer process- students who were more laid back and less intense about their work (Not less driven but less cutthroat). I e-mailed a couple of Colgate students that I knew personally and asked about their experiences and it sounded right to me. Did I visit while school was in session? No… but I took my chances. Thankfully the students told me the truth- I’m much happier with the student body here overall. But it didn’t meet up my expectations to some extent but I’ve learned to deal with it.</p>

<p>She should re-apply to the schools that initially rejected her anyway. She should call the admissions office and see if they can pull out her old file and tell her what was the reason for rejecting her in the first place. I did that with Colgate back in May of my senior year in high school and they told me “too many Bs” and I knew that I needed to have an upward grade trend to show Colgate that I could get in. I didn’t have great SATs either! She should remain optimistic as she is demonstrating her interests and should be able to, by now, pinpoint exactly why those other schools would be a STRONGER fit for her (Rule of transfer apps: NO comparsions between current school and the applying school). She should also include the academics because it’s the #1 criteria for accepting transfer students because otherwise any other factor looks like a complaint.</p>

<p>At this point, she does need a heart-to-heart conversation to really find out what’s wrong and see if transfer is a good option.</p>

25

<p>Very sound advice tickle. Nobody wants somebody that rags on their old school, job etc. If I hear someone badmouthing their current employer in an interview, they are dinged right then no matter how good they look on paper.</p>

26

<p>nyc: As you yourself pointed out – too difficult a menu. The schools that she wants ranked above Bates may not want her. And those grades say she might not do well at a more competitive LAC.</p>

<p>She might try Sarah Lawrence which is looking for very different things than other schools. Not ranked as high as Bates, but USNWR is not the be all and end all. Sarah Lawrence has its own cache.</p>

27

<p>nyc, it sounds from some of your posts as if your cousin chose Bates based partially on its rankings (higher than other possibilities). Forgive me if that interpretation is incorrect. If that’s true, though, it may be worth gently pointing out that she’s unhappy with the fit of her highly ranked school, so it might make sense this time around to try a different approach–emphasizing fit above ranking (or risk getting caught in the same situation). Of course, this isn’t to say that academics shouldn’t be a priority, but the academics between #20, #25, and #30 won’t be meaningfully different (likewise quite a bit further up and down the ranking scale).</p>

28

<p>We have have an on-gong heartfelt conversation. Yes, she part of her unhappiness is feeling turned down by “better” schools. Thus my concern that is she applys to only reach schs and gets rejected, she will feel even worse and my urging that she make the best of Bates.</p>

<p>Like student 615’s friend, cuz hasn’t told anyone (except hs buddy now a jr at Bates who had the same concerns and regrets not transferring). But her desire to leave and time spent investig transfer possibilities is keeping her from working hard to find kindred spirits at Bates.</p>

<p>To be blunt, cuz is a bit of a snob. She was a “star” at her hs and remains upset at not having “won” the college admissions game. I think if she had been more flexible, self-aware and realistic about her prospects, she might have had a better outcome last year. Sadly, she remains inflex, unreas and immaturity (she’s got lots of good qualities, but it’s the bad one that are relevant here).</p>

<p>Also, I think that like too many of her generation, cuz is way too passive. She is unwilling to put real efort into making whatever campus she’s on a good fit for her (or making it the best fit it can be for her). Instead, she expect to walk on to campus and have everything fall perfectly into place.</p>

<p>For the record, cus was wait-listed at Skidmore and Colby; rejected at Oberlin, Kenyon, Wesleyan and Bowdoin. She was admitted to Smith (I insisted that she apply) and Bates. She also toured, but didn’t apply to Vassar (thought it was nothing special) and Swarthmore (too serious). </p>

<p>I truly wish cuz would climb off her high horse and consider at least a few of the great schools suggested here. Thanks again.</p>

29

<p>

Maybe a heartfelt conversation is NOT in order. ;)</p>

<p>(nyc, I think you’ve got it, or at least that’s the diagnosis Dr. Curmudgeon would have wanted to rule out first. ;))</p>

30

<p>Important moral of this story: in counseling our children (and whomever else we come in contact with) we have to be bluntly realistic assessing their chances. In large measure because cuz was not realistic, she is unhappy at a school that many people on this list would DIE to get into.</p>

<p>cuz also needs some straight talk now. If she really wants to transfer to a more selective school, she needs to suck it up and achieve, rather than sticking her nose up in the air and talking about how she is intellectually superior to those whom she derides as grade grubbing philistines.</p>

31

<p>

</p>

<p>She’s at a school that US News ranks in the top 25 of all LAC’s. By the standards of many people (we don’t need to debate this here…), your cousin did “win” the college admissions game! </p>

<p>If she’s not able to look past rankings, she won’t easily let herself be happy at any school below Bates. She’s not letting herself be happy at Bates. She hasn’t set herself up in a way that seems likely to let her be happy at a school above Bates. She’s trapping herself with her own stubbornness!</p>

<p>That said, judging by the schools that accepted your cousin as a first year, I’m sure she really does have some wonderful qualities to offer any school. Congrats to you for your patience (I’d be tearing hair out by now, I think), and I really do hope that this situation works out :)</p>

32

<p>Bates is of course a very good school. If she’d done her research, she’d have known it might not be a good fit. If she cared about political activism and intellectual rigor as much as she says she does, there are hundreds of schools that would meet her criteria and be happy to have her. Those schools will not, however, be skimmed from the top of a list in a magazine. Her grades and test scores are probably not high enough, unless she’s done something really outstanding apart from that, to qualify her for what she considers acceptable schools.</p>

<p>True, mythmom, Sarah Lawrence doesn’t consider SAT scores, but then I’d think they’d want to see outstanding grades or other achievements. And they are quirky, but I’m not sure about political activism.</p>

33

<p>I think she missed the boat in not accepting Smith. Many NE girls are having the results of cuz, and some without as good a school as Bates to the rescue. One of D’s friends had this outcome until she visited the school at the bottom of her list, NYC, and fell in love. Happy ending.</p>

<p>Smith is activist and intellectual. If they wanted her before, maybe they still will. And plenty elite.</p>

34

<p>A different direction, and very politically active: Brandeis University; but they like to see the grades happening.</p>

35

<p>I don’t think Vassar is all that activist. I would say, however, that students are interested in learning for learning’s sake. It’s certainly worth a shot to apply. What about Goucher?</p>

36

<p>I would have suggested Goucher, but I’m not sure about snob appeal to this particular person. my son thought it was a very interesting school. Why won’t she look at Bryn Mawr that has a great relationship with Haverford and is an incredible school?</p>

37

<p>

She needs to grow up. This is magical thinking. We can’t fix that. Don’t know that we should.
Life takes effort. A great life may take a little more. JMO.</p>

38

<p>If the real reasons are intellectual, activist/socially consc student body, and somewhat less isolated – then Smith…where she had been admitted…would be a perfect choice. Or one of the other suburban/urban women’s schools like Barnard, or Wellesley, or Bryn Mawr.</p>

<p>So…as had been indicated…maybe these aren’t the real reasons.</p>

39

<p>

Don’t confuse SLC’s USNews “ranking” with selectivity. USNews uses some concocted average-minus-200pnt SAT factor to compensate for SLC not using SATs for admission. Due to its unique nature (no grades, no majors, all conference classes) its applicant pool is already quite self-selected and competition for admission is strong. Few can consider SLC a safety, it’s just that off-the-wall. My D got wait-listed and then transferred in from a top-20 U, so transfer is easier than waiting list for sure. Lots of first-years, believe it or not, arrive without a clue as to the unique nature of the school they’ve chosen, so disappointment level is quite high among freshman and many leave after the first year, leaving room for transfers. SLC is always top-rated for classroom experience, and maybe the lack of SATs and a viable transfer program could help your cousin . . . if SLC is a good fit. It’s not for everyone!</p>

40

<p>Agree with Proud Dad about SLC. It is unique and a wonderfully academic and artsy place as far as I can tell. Short-changed by USNews because they won’t deal in SAT scores. Reed also gets under-rated by USN for other reasons. But unless I’m wrong, neither of these schools is a hot bed of political activism. Intellectually rigorous, yes. And not so easy to get into.</p>