transfer to find more activist student body?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Cousin is unhappy at Bates. She reports that the students are bright but not intellectual (ie primarily interested in gettigng good grades, not in learning for its own sake) and, worse still apathetic. She’s hoping to transfer, but no only to a sch w/ a more activist or socially consc student body, but a more compet school and less isolated school, pref in the NE.</p>

<p>The problem: Her hs grades were strong, but not her SATs. She was rejected outright or waitlisted at a number of higher ranked schools (Wesleyan, Bowdoin, Oberlin, Kenyon). Also, here first sem grades are respectable (a little better than a “B” average: A-, B+, B, C+), but probab not strong enough for a top tier LAC. The only specific shs she’s mentioned is Vassar.</p>

<p>I have suggested Bates and Clark - - but neither has enough cache for her. She is also unwilling to consider any of the women’s colleges (Bryn Mawr, Smith, Barnard).</p>

<p>Am I being too pesimistic re: her chances at Vassar and similar schools?</p>

<p>Are the schools I suggested for her reasonable?</p>

<p>Can you suggest any other schs she should consider?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>Students at 99% of schools are pretty much in it for the grades/jobs these days. That goes for the top schools on down.<br>
U Vermont might be a good option. Burlington is liberal and active. The school is good too.</p>

3

<p>You indicated a preference for the NE, but if your cousin is willing to look farther away, Pitzer College (<a href=“http://www.pitzer.edu%5B/url%5D”>http://www.pitzer.edu</a> - Claremont, CA) could be a good option…</p>

<p>The school is ranked somewhere around #49-50 among LAC’s (US News), and is in a consortium with four other colleges, all also ranked in the top 50 (<a href=“http://www.claremont.edu%5B/url%5D”>http://www.claremont.edu</a>). The campuses, along with one grad school, are adjacent (one other grad school is a few blocks away); students can and do cross-register. The consortium is a huge part of campus life, both academically and socially.</p>

<p>I don’t know what transfer statistics are like, but Pitzer is SAT optional for freshman applicants. For freshman, it’s quite selective in terms of % admitted, but admissions stats are reasonable (26% admitted; Avg GPA 3.72; Avg SAT 616/636 Math/CR). Being a small LAC, “fit” is especially important.</p>

<p>In my experience (I went to another Claremont college, but took a number of courses on Pitzer or with Pitzer students), students are very engaged, but laid back. Interested in learning for learning’s sake, definitely. “Intellectual” is an accurate term, but it doesn’t really conjure up the right stereotype. Fantastic professors, too…</p>

<p>I know that the Princeton Review lists are FAR from scientific, but they can provide meaningful info. Most recently, Pitzer appeared on the lists for:</p>

<ul>
<li>Best Classroom Experience </li>
<li>Lots of Race/Class Interaction<br></li>
<li>Students Ignore God on a Regular Basis<br></li>
<li>Reefer Madness<br></li>
<li>Most Politically Active<br></li>
<li>Students Most Nostalgic For Bill Clinton<br></li>
<li>Birkenstock-Wearing, Tree-Hugging, Clove-Smoking Vegetarians</li>
</ul>

<p>Pitzer was also named one of Princeton Review’s “Colleges with a Conscience” (to give you an idea, students must fulfill a “Social Responsibility” requirement).</p>

<p>^ I’m including this stuff to try and give you a “feel” for the school, but it should of course be noted that these are generalizations. Claremont’s consortium set-up allows for a particularly great diversity of interests/personalities. ETA: These lists, particularly “Colleges with a Conscience,” might be a good jumping off point for your cousin’s search (<a href=“http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/conscience/[/url]”>http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/conscience/&lt;/a&gt;).</p>

<p>Again, west coast, and I don’t know “chances,” but it sprung right to mind. Here’s transfer info: <a href=“http://www.pitzer.edu/admission/applying/transfer.asp[/url]”>http://www.pitzer.edu/admission/applying/transfer.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Good luck to your cousin, wherever she ends up :)</p>

4

<p>OP</p>

<p>Do you mean you suggested Bard and Clark? Though I know Bates is a fine school, we all experienced it the same way during our visit–not high on the intellectual curiousity scale. My son said the class he attended was straight lecture–no discussion, no questions, just people taking notes for the test. Check in Colleges that Change Lives for more suggestions, but your cousin might have better luck finding a match in another part of the country. Beloit in WI is one college that comes to mind. Or maybe Lawrence, also in WI, though I’m not sure about their activism scene. Maybe Knox in IL. Wait–how about St. Lawrence in NY? That’s a really good school with serious students, might be activist. Has good financial aid for those entering as freshmen; don’t know about transfers. If she’s getting good grades at Bates, maybe she’d be reconsidered at a place like Oberlin.</p>

5

<p>I agree Pitzer would be a great choice if she were willing to be farther from home (she’s not even considering the mid-West this time) AND if she wasn’t sot hung up on status.</p>

<p>I recalled seeing both Pitzer and Clark among the schs w/ conscience - - that’s why I suggested Clark (respectable ranking, activist, in the N’eaast, etc.)</p>

6

<p>Oh. She wants a “more compet” socially conscious school with status and cache. Got it.</p>

<p>Maybe a heartfelt conversation is in order. Maybe not? But I’d dig a little deeper. JMO.</p>

7

<p>Hampshire? It used to have a fairly activist student body, at least, and it’s close to lots of other schools, including UMass, so there’s critical mass for almost everything in the immediate area.</p>

8

<p>Yes, I already suggested Clark and Bard, but she’s thinking Vassar.</p>

<p>She wants intellectualism and activism, but thus far has been unwilling to consider any shcs ranked lower than Bates.</p>

9

<p>Swarthmore?</p>

10

<p>Curmudg - - you hit the nail on the head. I worry that she’s being unrealstic. She needs to decide what’s most important. </p>

<p>As a contractor once said, everyone wants the job done fast, good and cheap. The problem is, while it’s relatively easy to get two out of the three (good and fast, but not cheap; cheap and good, but not fast; etc.) it is virtually impossible to get all three.</p>

<p>I believe this applies to cousin’s decision, as well.</p>

11

<p>Bates I think is SAT optional, which is maybe why she got in there and not other places. Vassar is not SAT optional, nor is Swarthmore. I think she is being unrealistic, though it doesn’t cost much to apply and I guess you never know.</p>

12

<p>Why no big schools? That’s where you’ll find a mosaic of kids; some politically active, some social change leaders, some just there to take the test; some there to test the boundaries on their beliefs.</p>

<p>If it were my cousin I’d be suggesting BU, Rutgers, Binghamton, agree with the suggestion of U Vermont; you can tell her that Smith which has a huge activist community does not “feel” like a single sex school unless you want it to be- you can get involved in campus activities at any of the consortium schools, and the Northhampton/Berkshires community is very receptive to activism, environmentalism and all the other isms.</p>

13

<p>In my experience, and this is a major generalization, to which there are plenty of individual exceptions…</p>

<p>The more one relies on status and prestige as a means to finding “intellectualism,” the less likely that person is to have a successful search.</p>

<p>I’m not an expert re: transfer statistics, but with weak SAT’s and just over a 3.0 college GPA, your cousin’s odds of getting into a higher-ranked school than Bates don’t seem excellent. At the very least, it seems wise to stay open-minded during the search process. Nothing wrong with shooting high when it comes to applications themselves, but why limit oneself so sharply at the outset? And hey, according to US News, “Top Tier” includes something like their top 60+ LAC’s…</p>

14

<p>My D was in a similar situation, and transfered because of that. She ended up in activism central–Wesleyan. I know your cousin was turned down there before, but so were a couple of my D’s transfer friends (and she was accepted for transfer to a school which had turned her down first go-round.)</p>

<p>So, if the cousin has a stellar record from BAtes as well as HS, and has done significant things (D and friends all had good ECs from their freshman year schools), she might get accepted by schools like Wes, Oberlin, etc that turned her down the first time (and I know that Wes and Oberlin, being larger than average LACs, take a fairly high number of transfers.)</p>

15

<p>I’d agree with Student615 about her transfer chances with low SATs and a 3.0 college GPA, she will have a very difficult time transferring “up” to a more selective school. If she’s sure that she wants to leave Bates, she should have a broad list that contains matches and safeties along with reach schools like Vassar.</p>

16

<p>I agree w/ most of the posts. </p>

<p>No problem applying to Vassar, Wes (where cuz was held over from EDI to RD and ultimately rejected) and Obi as reach schools. I just worry that in refusing to consider at lease some match schools, she will apply out, get rejected and feel even worse about being at Bates. It’s hard to feel settled or to make your peace w/ a sch if you’re got one foot out the door or if your classmates see you as on the way out.</p>

<p>I couldn’t think of any true “match” schools that fit her criteria. She shot down schs I suggested as near-matches (Bard, Clark); has often maked fun of Hampshire and won’t consider women’s colleges or schs west of Ohio (except maybe for Mac or Carleton). </p>

<p>I just wanted to pcik the parent forum brain before I throw in the towel.</p>

17

<p>It seems she has a choice; either include more matchy type schools, or decide it’s a choice of staying at Bates or taking her chances with the reaches. And actually, that’s not an unreasonable option. Though, personally, I can’t find a reason not to apply to Bard, or clark, or maybe Skidmore–they’re all fine schools that are going to have a smart, quirky kind of population that she seems to be looking for.</p>

18

<p>I haven’t been in the position of having to counsel a student who wants to transfer and I understand that being unhappy can do a number on your grades. BUT . . . if the other kids are not very “intellectual” and she loves learning for learning’s sake, why the mediocre grades? And if she is truly interested in social and political issues, why is she so worried about rankings and prestige and spends her time “making fun” of other schools?
Perhaps she is simply unhappy with Bates because other schools that she “perceives” as better turned her down.</p>

19

<p>

</p>

<p>Maybe a heartfelt conversation is in order.</p>

20

<p>I agree about the conversation. But I also think that a little research is in order. Why not call admissions offices at a variety of different levels of selectivity (Vassar on down), describe her record, and ask if she is in the ball park for being accepted as a transfer. Hopefully, you won’t get the typical blah, blah, blah that you get when you ask similar questions about freshman admissions.</p>