Transferring from Grinnell for social reasons

Transfer Students
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Hi everyone! I’ve been thinking about writing a post like this for awhile, but my ADHD got the best of me and so I’m writing this a couple months later then I would have liked, haha. I feel a little anxious writing this post, but wanted to get some opinions to get a better idea of the social landscape outside the bubble I’ve been in that might be able to accommodate me as an individual.

To introduce myself, you can call me blue! I’m currently a rising junior attending Grinnell College, as well as an alumni of Phillips Exeter Academy. I don’t mention the later to brag, but to put into context that I can do the hard work that an institution like Grinnell requires, and I understand survival in a high stress environment. With that being said, however, after my study abroad semester in the fall, I want to transfer to another college. I’ve thought a lot about this (and have talked to various faculty both about my circumstances as well as ways to cope/alleviate them), but I think there’s just a fundamental incompatibility between the student environment here at Grinnell, and the kind of community I need in order to grow and thrive as an individual at this college. Here’s how I would describe what I mean in a nutshell…

Here at Grinnell we spend 20 hours in class 2-3 times a week with 90 minutes of homework per class each class while everyone takes 4-6 classes. In terms of workload, everything feels about the same, if not a little more difficult then it was at Exeter due to course content. Class sizes are very similar, albeit slightly bigger, with the biggest class I’ve ever had being around 24 students and most classes being 15 or less. Faculty are a little less available due to the independent nature of being at college, but they’re still always around to help just in case someone needs anything.

The biggest difference, in my opinion, is the student culture though. At Exeter, we took the constant fatigue and pain of the schedule in stride knowing we had the opportunity of the lifetime, so everyone felt connected in that way (not to mention the twice a week assemblies where the entire student body was literally assembled in a single massive hall and given lectures and announcements). But here at Grinnell, it feels like everyone takes that stress and tiredness as an excuse to minimize social interaction, and disregard anyone who might take up more energy then occupying the same space because you two have something in common in your busy schedule. Rumors spread quite easily and people are…very quick to close people off and disregard them.

Unfortunately, that’s happened to me, and as a result I’ve had multiple people stop talking to me without explanation. I’ve talked to faculty about it, and there’s quite literally a name for it: the “Grinnell smackdown.” It feels like here at Grinnell, people are much more maliciously isolating as opposed to the passive isolation caused by lack of free time caused by Exeter. People go out of their way to avoid people they deem “high-maintence,” and those people are excluded from entire friend groups on the mere presumption of difficulty alone.

As someone who is both a racial minority and neurodivergent, those two things don’t tend to coalesce well with the environment here. While everyone is very open-minded in theory, the reality is that no one wants to go through the effort of having tough conversations, disagreements, or doing things outside their comfort zone. Conflict is avoided in every manner possible, and people will do anything just to not tell you what the hell you’re doing that’s bothering them.

And because everyone is so low on energy, it feels like most of the students are defined by what they do for recreation: Sports, Clubs, Cultural Groups, etc. People here become defined by the activities they participate in, and as someone who just enjoys being*,*** and not being defined by any one particular thing, it makes it hard to find a community anywhere here, and it’s a problem I don’t think can be remedied in a manner that could result in the growth I need as a person. I really need to have the opportunity to make mistakes socially, learn how to manage uncomfortable feelings, and get close to people in a way they can trust me. It is borderline impossible to do that when everyone constantly wants to put on a mask of perfection in order to prove that they belong at this institution, losing themselves within whatever they end up spending their time doing.

Good lord, that was alot! Sorry, I’ve just had a ton of time to reflect as to why I feel fundamentally incompatible with this institution. I hope I’ve been able to sufficiently communicate why I don’t think it’s good for me to continue attending Grinnell until graduation, despite the plethora of privileges and benefits I acknowledge I have access to. And so with all of that being said, I was wondering what kind of other colleges you guys think might be a better fit for me in terms of social life, with what I’ve been able to describe so far?

I’ll say that I think I’ve definitely become less picky over the last 3 years and at this point I am really open to anything as long as it can meet a bare minimum for financial aid (as I am a very high financial needs student, but can also survive with a bit of loans considering I’ll be leaving Grinnell with only 1 and a ½ years of school left, no debt and 76.5 credits), and has some sort of existing system in place to ensure that transfer students don’t just get lost in the void of friendlessness because everyone on campus has already formed their own cliques and stuff. Other than that, I’m primarily considering schools close to my home in NYC, considering the breadth of opportunities available in the SUNY system as well as the heavy concentration of amazing schools in New England & the Tri-State Area; I’ll also prefer being able to enroll in the spring, but I’m plenty comfortable with taking a gap semester to just attend a school in the fall (considering I think I’m ahead of the curb in terms of credit hours, as Grinnell has an avg. of 16 credits per semester instead of the usual 12).

Thank you so much for reading all of this, and if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, please let me know! Cheers!!:blue_heart:

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Colleges typically require transfer students to complete a minimum of two years at their institution. In addition, not all of your credits may be accepted by a new college and you will need to meet all of the graduation requirements (required classes, distribution requirements, major requirements, etc.) at any new institution.

At this late juncture and given your high financial need I’d consider taking two semesters abroad/at a domestic program with a partner school and then complete your degree at Grinnell. Perhaps you can find a way (ex. APs, summer classes, overloading schedule) to finish a semester early.

ETA: Please also consider the challenges of transferring. A successful transfer can absolutely be done but it can be difficult. You will be new to a college when your peers there will have established routines, long standing friendships, relationships with professors, ECs in place, etc. while all will be new to you. For any college you look at be sure to understand how transfer students get incorporated into the college (ex. transfer orientation, scheduling, housing to name a few considerations.)

Sorry you are dealing with this.

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You’ve clearly put a lot of thought into this, and your explanation is helpful, but there’s some info missing that would help to complete the picture. What’s your college GPA so far? What’s your major, and what are your academic/career interests and goals?

Trying to write transfer applications while abroad may detract from your experience, and spring entry at another school may be more difficult socially as well. A semester off in the spring, to regroup and plan a path forward (and get a job to build up some financial buffer as well), may make more sense than trying to make a spring transfer happen.

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I’m so sorry to hear of your experience at Grinnell. :cry: But thank you for sharing.

Best of luck with your next school. :heart_hands:

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It’s not gonna happen. For one, I’m unable to take multiple semesters abroad unless I’m majoring in a language the program is related to, and unfortunately, I’m a biology major. While I appreciate your thoughtfulness and advice, Grinnell absolutely is not a survivable environment for me in terms of my mental health. I have no friends. None. At all. It’s kind of like hell, being a highly empathetic human who just kinda gets driven into the mud everytime they want interaction. And finishing a semester early is just gonna worsen things…what exactly am I gonna do after college? How on earth am I going to make new friendships with strangers in the real world when I barely learned how to connect with people at my school? Speedrunning my way through the rest of my college career just sounds like a surefire way to guarantee I’ll be a lonely neet for the rest of my life.

I’ve thought a lot about this, and I’ve even talked to the President of the college about it. I’ve also thought a lot about what you’ve said about the difficulties of transferring, especially as someone who already has difficulty socializing. But in the end, I think the best thing I can do (especially after talking from other students who transferred from Grinnell, many of which are very happy they did so. 3 different people I knew during Freshmen year have already transferred…) is to find an institution that, like you said, provides opportunities and resources for non-traditional students like me. From what I could tell from the research I’ve done so far, it looks like there’s a median of around 16~ classes or 64 credits that can be transferred usually between institutions. I’ll keep looking for ones that accept more credits, but I think I’m also fine with just sucking it up and only transferring 64/having to do a full 2 years at a new institution as long as it means I have the opportunity to be happy again. But that would depend on my ability to pay for it as well.

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You’re so right! I’m currently sitting pretty (at least for my standards) with a cumulative GPA of 3.21. I’m a biology major with a heavy focus on getting a wide breadth of a liberal arts education, with my favorite other course I’ve found so far being Gender Studies. My career interest is in Regenerative Medicine, and specifically the application of stem cells in the revitalization of organs. But to be honest, I’m also just trying to find what makes me happy. I’ve been very curious about doing research on TrPs (Muscle knots) and what causes on them, as well as the pathogensis of how auto-immune disorders (specifically IBD and IBS) come to inhabit the human body and why those conditions occur at a higher rate in first world countries. I currently have 64.5 credits, but will be at a total of 76.5 credits after I finish my Study Abroad opportunity in Coppenhagen, Denmark.

You might be right when it comes to just taking a break and recouping. The only reason I’m reluctant to do so is because I’ve already taken a med leave during my high school years (good lord i’m an oversharer lol); as such, I’ll already be graduating at 23 instead of 22. But for the sake of my mental health, it might be worth considering what’s one more semester? Cheers for the feedback.

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While 12 credits per semester is the minimum to be a “full time” student for financial aid purposes, 15-16 credits per semester is what one needs to graduate in 8 semesters based on the 120-128 credits that colleges typically have in their graduation requirements.

If your 76.5 credits includes AP or IB credit, then be aware that your new college will typically re-evaluate it based on its own AP or IB credit policies, which may result in more or less credit, and/or different subject credit.

As a junior transfer, colleges your apply to transfer to likely want to see you ready to declare a major there. Will you continue to be a biology major?

Also note that many colleges have general education requirements more extensive or restrictive than those at Grinnell.

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Note that if you transfer into a school that gives 3 credit per class, there is a possibility that your 4 credit classes from Grinnell will transfer in as 3 credit classes.

I hope you find transfer options that will work.

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This goes beyond just not being able to fit in; you are in a lot of emotional pain and are barely hiding it. A year and half of more college on a different campus is not going to fix that. Grinnell is a highly resourced place; sit down with an actual counselor. It shouldn’t cost you a dime and with any degree of serious commitment to a wellness course, graduation should arrive before you know it.

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You need to listen to all the people who are telling you that your best option is to finish at Grinnell. As tough as it is there, socially, for you, it is extremely unlikely to be better anywhere else, and it is very unlikely that you will get sufficient financial aid to be able to come out debt free - in fact, you simply might not be able to transfer unless you have a cosigner for the loans you will require. It can be very difficult to connect, socially, as a transfer student.

Throughout life, people make friends via the activities they engage in - work, clubs, religious groups, etc. As a neurodivergent person, you need guidance on how to connect with people and make friends. Please, get into counseling at Grinnell. Join open admission social clubs/groups that interest you, that are very accepting. If there’s a group/club for your ethnic group or religion, or a sport that you like, go to it, over and over. Volunteer to help out there with activities/events. At the same time, express to the counselor that you need help with learning better social skills, so that you can make some friends.

The problem is not the school that you’re attending, and the problem will not go away if you transfer. In fact, you’re likely to wind up with a financial problem, if you do transfer.

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I am sorry Grinnell has been a bad fit for you. Sometimes these things can be difficult to know ahead of time.

Have you researched what a SUNY would cost? Can you live at home and attend a SUNY? A CUNY? Would any of these schools be affordable to you and your family without loans beyond the federal direct student loans?

You can try to transfer to a meet full need school, but your 3.2 GPA will likely be an issue there. Did any other meet full need schools accept you coming out of HS?

As for debt, you can take out a federal student loan of $7500 each of junior and senior years. Anything beyond that will likely require a co-signer, be on your parents, or have prohibitively high interest rates.

When you are figuring out costs make sure to include two full years at your transfer institution as that’s what most require, it doesn’t matter how many credits you have or how many they accept.

An extra semester increases your cash outlay, and delays the time you can be working in a career type job and earning money. That’s an expensive semester for a limited income student/family.

In the big picture I concur with others who have said it may be best to continue at Grinnell. I also encourage you to seek counseling, both this summer and when you get back to Grinnell.

What about another semester at a US/Caribbean school? It looks like Grinnell participates in American U’s Wash DC semester, a marine bio semester, and coral reef preservation semester (considered domestic because it’s in the US Virgin Islands.) Could any of those work? https://travel.global.grinnell.edu/_portal/program-search

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Hey blue. I will give it to you straight-up. Transferring after completing your semester abroad is going to be rough. Logistically speaking, your criteria will not be found anywhere. Schools that will allow you to transfer in to finish your degree with less than two years left (if there are any- most require you to complete a minimum number of credits at their institution) will not provide infrastructure for transfers to thrive socially. Grinnell is typically described as quirky and welcoming. Other schools will probably be much more difficult socially. Your GPA is not competitive for a lateral transfer at a meets full need school or a significant merit scholarship at a less selective institution.

You’ve had a rough time for sure, and your determination to better your circumstances is admirable. I would either take some time off entirely or try and seek supports to help you through Grinnell. You only have three more semesters left there- not that many!! You will have other social opportunities later in life. With your career aspirations (super cool btw) grad school is definitely in the cards and you can have a fresh start meeting people there that share your same interests. Focus on doing really, really well academically for the next few semesters to set yourself up for a more enjoyable life in the future.

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Have you tried volunteering or joining clubs off campus? Crafting, swimming, hiking, religion, cultural activities…anything that you might enjoy.

This looks like a great volunteering activity. https://community-partners.cls.sites.grinnell.edu/arts-media-comms/connections-peer-support-drop-in-center/

It also looks like there are some good drop programs at the Health and Wellness Center.

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I feel your pain. And I understand that returning to Grinnell is intolerable.

Looking at SUNY options makes sense because typically they do not require even 2 years of course work to obtain your degree from a SUNY college. You can do it in as little as one year. In the NYC city area, I would start by looking at Purchase College where majors in both Biology and Biochem are available. I also think that being neurodivergent is going to be a non-issue on that particular campus.

A private liberal arts college which accepts transfers with less than 2 years to complete their degree is Ithaca College - if you can afford it. It also has a reputation of being neurodivergent friendly. Same would be true at Syracuse University which accepts up to 90 transfer credits.

I’m wondering if you have contacted anyone in the guidance department at Phillips Exeter? Schools like that have a reputation of continuing their services to alums beyond graduation. They know you and may be in a very good position to help you look at alternatives

Than you for being so open and for sharing your story. Gaining this insight about Grinnell has been very helpful.

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I’d recommend City College, as well, as a school to consider.

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Do you have a source for this statement, especially for students coming from a private school? I don’t see anything that shows on average how long a transfer student attends SUNY Purchase.

Even if SUNY Purchase accepts 90 credits from a previous institution, to stick with this example, students are still required to take 45 upper level credits. I don’t know how many upper level credits OP will come in with nor how many will be ultimately accepted at Purchase. I would fully expect the study abroad classes to not transfer.

Understanding transfer policies is something one can research ahead of time, but in reality many schools won’t give a student the final credit transfer decisions/how they apply to a given major/degree until they are accepted. A growing number of schools require an enrollment deposit before determining transfer credits. Unless there is an articulation agreement between schools, it is often quite an onerous process.

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Um…yeah dude, I know I’m in a lot of emotional pain. You’re not telling me any information I don’t already know. I’ve been in therapy consistently since high school, and you absolutely are in no position to tell my my solution to my problems is to just “look into myself.” No amount of therapy or talking with consuleors will remedy the fundumental problem that there are people on campus who refuse to associate with me, have refused contact with me, and have gone out of there way to tell other people not to be friends with me. You guys are looking at this from such a narrow-minded prospective it’s frustrating as hell. I know my wants and I know my needs after years of talking with therapists, 3 semesters of group therapy, and intricate and intimate conversations with the the chief staff of student affairs, the president of the college, the officer for cultural belonging…if you could not belittle and undermine my lived experience by telling me some wellness bull is gonna fix all my issues, that would be great. Thanks!

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I don’t need to listen to anything I think isn’t beneficial for my own well-being. My problem at this point of time isn’t graduating debt free, my issue at this point of time is that college is a prime time for growth as an individual in both social and emotional ways, and Grinnell is an institution where both the policies that are in place and the student body that interacts with it create an environment where I will not be able to get the things I need as a human being out of the rest of my college career. Me and my mom both agree that loans are worth not going through the constant pain and emotional suffering that I’ve been going through as a person.

I’ve asked for all the guidance I could from every student resource I could. I’ve talked to people in Career services, student affairs, dean of student health, and even the president of the college herself. I’ve taken their advice and tried to go to clubs, go out to social events, talk to people from classes, etc. And after trying and having all of those things fail (for various reasons, most of them being the cliquey and low-energy nature of the community, a middling first impression that lead to a lot of gossip, rumors, and people blocking me, and people in clubs not really ‘sticking’ much; they talk with me in the club, but outside they never wanted to hang out or grab lunch).

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And…there it is.

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What a college is ‘described as,’ is not always what you end up getting on the campus at hand. I’m not alone in my troubles; like I said, there’s a term for the type of friend issues I’ve went through (the Grinnell smackdown), Grinnell itself has a middling 85% first-year retention rate, and many of the people I’ve gotten to known during my time at Grinnell have already transferred. Grinnellians are friendly in the sense that they are diverse and often times LGBTQ or ND. But the small school environment leads to a heavy gossip culture where people don’t bother interacting with those they’ve heard negative things about, even if those negative things aren’t that bad. Three semesters is a lot to go through after years of difficult friendships and non-stop disharmony in spite of my attempts to find spaces of solace (by talking with people in student affairs, etc.)