Transferring into UVA?

[system]

<p>

I was very concerned to see the recent article about the University’s consideration of a guaranteed admission policy for students from the Virginia Community College System (“University offers guaranteed admission to VCCS students,” April 13). Such a system would reward underachievement in high school as well as at the community college level. </p>

<p>The University has stated that students who meet all of the requirements, obtain an associate’s degree and maintain a 3.4 GPA will be guaranteed admission to the University. </p>

<p>As a student who worked hard in high school, I take this as a slap to the face. We all know the academic rigor of the VCCS is suboptimal. </p>

<p>Furthermore, VCCS schools have almost no admissions requirement aside from having the money to pay for the class. Such a system would allow a lazy high school student to go to a community college where he or she could do just enough to get by and would then reward such behavior with admission to one of this nation’s finest schools. </p>

<p>I am certainly not saying that all people who attend community college are lesser people, and I understand that variety of situations for which people attend. We should nonetheless let these people compete on a equal level with the thousands of other students who apply and let them be granted admission based on their merits. To guarantee admission to any class reduces the value of my degree and all my fellow alumni. </p>

<p>Jeremy Williams </p>

<p>CLAS 2005

</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=26818&pid=1433[/url]”>http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=26818&pid=1433&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[pizzelle]

<p>You have serious issues.</p>

[cavalier302]

<p>You don’t get it Pizzelle. This new agreement is an evil act by the administration at UVA to devalue the prestige of a UVA degree and to destroy the University! Hide your children!</p>

[sv3a]

<p>I don’t see what the point of posting various CD articles is.</p>

[cavalier302]

<p>What do you mean, sv3a? quixotic hasn’t convinced you of UVA’s impending demise? You must be a moron!</p>

[system]

<p>The reason for posting the articles was to show that not all UVA students agree with my critics in this thread. If these individuals have arguments in support of the Agreement, it might be productive to discuss them. Attacking me does nothing to further anyone’s understanding of the issues involved.<br>
.</p>

<p>Globalist:</p>

<p>I honestly don’t spend much time here and I’m sorry if you don’t care for my posts. </p>

<p>The VCCS Agreement states that the University of Virginia can withdraw from the Agreement with two years written notice. It also states that it will be evaluated annually – whatever that means. Under the Agreement, it’s possible that UVA may have to live with a big problem for a couple of years before it can do anything about the matter. At that point, it might be politically difficult to make significant changes as it is always hard to take an entitlement away after people have become used to it. </p>

<p>The reasons for my posts, in general, were to raise awareness of the issues involved and their possible implications. I also wanted to see what input others might have.</p>

<p>In looking into this issue it became apparent that the University’s Agreement was a result of a mandate from the state government.</p>

<p>Specifically, in the Management Agreement between the Commonwealth of Virginia and the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia pursuant to the Restructured Higher Education Financial and Administrative Operations Act of 2005 the University committed to certain state goals. One of those goals was:</p>

<p>“In a concerted effort to provide educational opportunities to Virginia students attending institutions in the Virginia Community College System (“VCCS”) and Richard Bland College, the University commits to work with Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (“Virginia Tech”) and the College of William and Mary in Virginia to establish a program under which these three institutions will increase significantly the number of such students transferring to their institutions. . . . The three institutions have agreed that they will mutually determine how to divide the responsibility for these additional transfer students equitably among themselves.”</p>

<p>Apparently, there was no opposition to this issue during the legislative process. In other words, the problems with this policy were not fully explored before the Act was passed. If alumni and current students feel like this policy is not in the best interest of the University, they should contact their Delegates and Senators. If enough people voice concern, the General Assembly can correct this problem in the next session, and the Agreement will no longer be an issue. Honestly, I don’t think the University wanted this Agreement, but their hands were tied:</p>

<p>

Prior to this program, the University had a matriculation agreement with the VCCS, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions John A. Blackburn said. However, the University has been hesitant to implement a guaranteed transfer admissions program. </p>

<p>‘We’ve not wanted to do this in the past because we’ve wanted to have some control [over transfer admissions.]’” Blackburn said.

<a href=“http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=26791&pid=1432[/url]”>http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=26791&pid=1432&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Dean J also points out that UVA was one of the last schools to enter into an agreement with VCCS. If the University thought the agreement was such a great idea, it would not have waited.</p>

<p>So, the message is: if you want this changed, get in contact with your Delegates and Senators ASAP.</p>

[cavalier302]

<p>lol. (10)</p>

[pizzelle]

<p>Buddy I think the point is that you’ve expressed your opinion sufficiently at this point. In fact, you’ve expressed it again and again and again and again to the point of hilarity. WE GET IT, YOU DON’T LIKE IT. How many times are you going to keep typing the exact same sentiment in essay form in this thread? Good god.</p>

<p>Oh hay btw do u like the new transfer agreement w/ vccs? I can’t tell what u feel</p>

<p>cavalier302- lolsville. Yes, I saw some VCCS students on campus yesterday and one of them tried to SPEAK TO ME and I was like “come on guys, have some sense” and made them maintain 10 foot distance. Then someone was like “hey did you hear these VCCS kids have made our ranking drop to Arbitrary Ranking #98 and everyone else (aka the worthy students) dropped out and now they’re closing the school?” I realized quixotic was right. We should’ve known he was right all along…since he’s so familiar with the inner workings of a college he doesn’t attend.</p>

[cavalier302]

<p>Personally, I think CC students should have to drink from separate water fountains. I also think they shouldn’t date our pure, direct-from-HS women!</p>

[Globalist]

<p>Quixotic,</p>

<p>I don’t hate your posts. I just find them odd…not by what you say necessarily but by your verve. It’s as if you’re a UVA student worried about an invasion of (as some imply) “unworthy” Community College students into our beloved University. You’ve stated your opinions…okay, they’re interesting…but now what? As you know, playing a broken record isn’t pleasing to the ears…in this case the eyes.</p>

<p>To be honest, I’m not a proponent or a detractor of the guaranteed transfer policy. (I’ll admit that it did raise my eyebrows when I first read about it.) But I’m of the let’s-wait-and-see ilk. For all we know, we could be crying wolf. </p>

<p>How about this? Why won’t you take your own advice and use your letter-writing skills to send a nice missive to President Casteen or the Board of Visitors or the members of the Virginia Legislature who required that Virginia’s 4-year colleges come up with policies for admitting Virginia Community College students. I believe in being effective, and I think that would be a more effective way for you to change this policy if you’re so hell bent against it.</p>

[sv3a]

<p>“Attacking me does nothing to further anyone’s understanding of the issues involved.”</p>

<p>Neither does repetition, as well as almost pure speculation.</p>

<p>That same article has a number of quotes in favor of this, including the Transfer Dean of Admissions. Here’s another quote from him.</p>

<p>

“The agreement that the University has formulated with Virginia’s community colleges is an important move forward in our effort to attract a greater number of VCCS transfer students,” added Gregory W. Roberts, transfer dean of admissions. “We are anxious to make the University more accessible to students who have not enrolled here immediately after finishing high school. The new agreement makes it possible for some students to realize their dream by earning a degree from the University of Virginia.”

</p>

<p>Let me throw out some more quotes, lololol.</p>

<p>

“This new agreement will encourage more community college students to transfer to the University of Virginia,” said Virginia President John T. Casteen III. “It makes clear how to use community college academic resources to prepare for transfer, and how to meet the standards. Coupled with AccessUVa, it should attract students who might have thought previously that they could not qualify for admission or that they could not afford the cost of attendance. Together, these programs remove barriers.”

</p>

<p>

“This gives Virginia students and their families one more tool for planning a tremendous higher education program,” said Glenn DuBois, chancellor of the Virginia Community College System. “Two years at community college, enjoying the financial advantage of lower tuition in a quality learning environment, followed by guaranteed admission into the University of Virginia is an unbeatable combination. Virginia’s community colleges are the gateway to opportunity.”

</p>

<p>Anyway, let’s also do more speculation based on something written in that CD article.</p>

<p>“In the past, many VCCS transfer applicants have been denied admission because they lack the necessary requirements determined by the College.” </p>

<p>So it looks like UVA did have the capacity to admit more VCCS students than it currently has, many of them being admittable students except for the fact that they didn’t take a foreign language or what not, and by guaranteeing admissions this program lays out what is needed to get into UVA for such people.</p>

<p>I also find the 230K student ‘guarantee’ to be amusing. Really, at most a 1/3 of those would be in a transfer program, and of course assuming that there are equal numbers of people enrolling and staying in each year the numbers would look more like 40K. However, I was wrong as well, according to the AccessUVA website.</p>

<p>"Each year, VCCS graduates 15,000 students, half of whom plan to transfer to four-year colleges and universities. In 2004, 241 VCCS students applied to U.Va. as third-year transfer students with a 3.0 GPA or better. Almost all who met the University’s core requirements, such as foreign language or math and science, were offered admission. "</p>

<p>Wow, getting in with a THREE point ZERO?? I guess their essays make up for it, but they clearly aren’t fit to be in UVA if they can’t get above a 3.4 in a CC. I wonder what the percentage of students admitted with 3.4+ while meeting the area requirements is. Unfortunately I don’t know, but we can always speculate.</p>

<p>Although I suppose the 230K was somewhat of an overestimation.</p>

<p>“Enrolling qualified VCCS transfer students is an important component of our mission as a public university,” said John A. Blackburn, dean of admission. “The diversity of life experience that VCCS students bring adds immeasurably to the student experience here at U.Va.”</p>

<p>Historically, Blackburn said, VCCS students graduate from U.Va. at similar rates and with similar GPAs as the general undergraduate population. "</p>

<p>Wait, UVA is trying to serve interests other than jumping one spot in the latest US News/Other College Rankings? What are they thinking? But we’re a public institution designed to serve the state of Virginia! I don’t know understand what’s going on here :)</p>

<p>Oh well, it looks like I’m out of time now. I think I did a good job on my 99999 word essay post, what do you think guys?</p>

[firebird74t]

<p>“Each year, VCCS graduates 15,000 students, half of whom plan to transfer to four-year colleges and universities. In 2004, 241 VCCS students applied to U.Va. as third-year transfer students with a 3.0 GPA or better. Almost all who met the University’s core requirements, such as foreign language or math and science, were offered admission.”</p>

<p>that is an overwhelming stat. Great post</p>

[pizzelle]

<p>I think we should segregate VCCS students from pure blooded HS imports for the good of the VCCS students. They have different needs and skill levels, and as a service to them they should be housed and taught in separate buildings somewhere near the airport. We shouldn’t even call it “UVA”, we can call it “UVA at the Airport.” Like their own special college. Separate but equal – that’s my motto. We must maintain the integrity of the bloodline to prevent any relations with the unwashed minority.</p>

<p>sv3a- You make good points, but I’m afraid in this case that’s wholly irrelevant. I am skeptical of the agreement and am anxious to see if anything significant changes within the university. I am…you know, giving it a chance before I call 911 and ask to be connected to the President of the U.S. VCCS students already had a fairly big presence on campus and no one really noticed, I am doubtful that this increase in presence will cause the campus to implode.</p>

<p>Thanks for your essay, I look forward to seeing about 35 more.</p>

[firebird74t]

<p>All joking aside pizelle, sv3a’s points are extremely relevant to the agreement. Some of his points, mainly the one about the amount of VCCS transfers applying to UVA, reinforces the idea that this agreement is designed for students who were already sure-admits to UVA. As for the soon-to-be “explosive growth” of VCCS, I highly doubt it. Any students who were hell-bent on getting into UVA would have understood that going to a CC would have been the smartest thing to do. And why not advocate diversity on a large scale to a UVA population, which people say is too homogenous?</p>

[pizzelle]

<p>His points are wholly irrelevant because the individual in question who is raising the argument apparently does not respond well to rationality.</p>

[firebird74t]

<p>Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. I see</p>

[jaek99]

<p>quixotic needs to find something better to do with his time</p>

[pihiplyr13]

<p>I’m really sorry for creating this thread. I started a new one relative to my topic.</p>

[Lasker]

<p>Extremely well argued quixotic. I’m convinced.</p>

[system]

<p>Students enroll earlier in higher education
By AMY COUTEE, The Virginian-Pilot
June 5, 2006 </p>

<p>

Waiting to start college after graduating from high school is so 1980. </p>

<p>This month, almost 2,500 local students will leave high school with anywhere from three to more than 30 college credits. A few will even be close to, or already have, an associate’s degree.</p>

<p>Bryan Hicklin and Ashley Sheridan , two Norfolk high school seniors, say they are already college sophomores.</p>

<p>With all of the college credits he has earned, Hicklin expects to graduate from college early. The Maury High School student signed up for Norfolk Public Schools’ and Tidewater Community College’s version of dual enrollment - the Middle College High School program - because he was “looking for something more advanced.”</p>

<p>. . . .</p>

<p>Proponents say dual-enrollment courses increase the likelihood of students enrolling in and graduating from college with a degree. They also say that the programs ease the transition from high school to college. </p>

<p>Not everyone believes dual-enrollment benefits students, though.
Experts have suggested that the quality of instruction in dual-enrollment courses is not as rigorous as that of a traditional college course.</p>

<p>Retired educator Carol Dougan supports that theory. Writing in The Chronicle of Higher Education, Dougan said that while the programs may help more students graduate from college, they do not truly benefit . </p>

<p>According to Dougan, formerly dean of business and computer science at Gaston College, many high school students need more time to learn to think critically, write effectively and analyze mathematical concepts.</p>

<p>Yet, rising college costs may make dual enrollment courses - and the head start they provide - even more appealing in the coming years.</p>

<p>And around South Hampton Roads, where the community colleges and public schools in Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Suffolk and Isle of Wight are looking to expand dual-enrollment course offerings, they are becoming easier to find.</p>

<p>. . . .</p>

<p>The Virginia Community College System aims to have 45,000 students in dual enrollment by 2009. This year there were 19,525 dual-enrolled students in Virginia.

</p>

<p><a href=“http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=105514&ran=54476[/url]”>http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=105514&ran=54476&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;