My daughter just finished an exhausting first semester at CMU as an ECE major. While she anticipated the academic demands, it was the intense stress culture of the school that was most unsettling for her. Even though she consistently devoted almost all of her free time to studying (and barely slept), she ended up with only a 3.0 GPA this semester. While I feel is this is quite impressive due to the difficulty of her CS/ECE classes and the fact that it is CMU, I’m not sure whether other good schools take this into account. Would schools really favor a 4.0 from a CC over a 3.0 ECE major at CMU? She is not entirely sure she wants to transfer out and may just look to change majors but she wants to keep her options open. Is it still worth applying to other top schools (and even a tier down) with this GPA? Since she is considering transferring within the school (to Information Systems) she will be taking no math or cs classes which should hopefully improve her GPA (although colleges will only see mid-semester grades).
Other schools should understand that ECE is a very demanding major at CMU.
P.S. CMU’s reputation as a high intensity environment is well-known as are CMU’s tough grading standards. My opinion is that your daughter is doing fine with a first semester GPA of 3.0 at CMU.
I think a 3.0 first semester freshman year, in the middle of a pandemic, in a difficult major is a perfectly fine GPA. Does she really not want to continue in CS or is she worried about her GPA? I’d recommend she sit down with her advisor and try to get some perspective around her grades and path forward.
I think the bigger issue is that your D feels there is an intense stress culture, not her GPA. I’d have her do a deeper dive on if that would be any different in another major. If not, hopefully she can get her GPA up second semester and start putting in transfer applications. She should talk to current students at the other schools she’s considering transferring to to make sure she’s not trading one stressful environment for another. CS/ECE is tough everywhere and I’m not entirely sure she’d have a different experience at a peer school. She may want to look a tier down, both for mental health and because of her current GPA.
Yes, you’re right about the stress culture being the biggest issue. She is pretty sure ECE is not for her but CS is still a big consideration. Unfortunately, transferring to CS is not usually possible at CMU (especially with her grades) and the stress culture and workload will be even greater. This is one reason why she is considering transferring out. However, she is unsure if CS is the right path for her and will be taking other classes at CMU in the Spring. She will be definitely speaking to friends at other schools (especially in CS) to find out about the stress culture and workload. It is also possible she will love a different major and will choose to stay.
Thought I went to CMU many years ago and my degree is ME, I remember my first semester and I got a 2.9. My final GPA was a bit over 3.0, but even to this day, having CMU on my resume raises eyebrows . Now if she wants a different major and CMU is not the place, that is a different story, but her GPA should not hold her back from Transferring.
OP, any idea where a 3.0 GPA places your daughter with respect to other students in her class? When I was in college (which was admittedly a long time ago), a 3.0 was considered to be a solid GPA in a difficult major like electrical engineering. That said, CMU has a reputation as being a major grind, which your post seems too confirm. My son looked at CMU when he was applying to colleges a couple of years ago and decided he wanted no part of it. If your daughter doesn’t think she can handle seven more semesters like the one she just experienced, changing majors or transferring to a different school might be the thing to do.
I agree with much of the above. CMU is a definite fit school in terms of the culture and vibe. She should definitely apply to reach schools even with the 3.0. However, if she is certain she wants to transfer, she will need to have some match schools and at least one affordable safety on the list. If it’s in the budget, working with an independent college counselor who is experienced in transfer admissions could make sense too.
Where else was she accepted to last year? Those schools may be a good starting point for transfer consideration.
I think it’s wonderful that you are in tune with your daughter. CMU is what I would call a pressure cooker, and some kids can thrive in that environment and are wired for it, and for others it is stress inducing. My husband is a 1989 CMU grad, and the school and study body could not be more different than when he went. I would listen hard to her needs if transferring out is the best option.
fwiw, I went from a 2.2 first semester to a 3.3 and three straight Dean’s Lists graduating as an ME. It takes time for some to adjust to the college culture. (But a couple fraternity brothers failed out, so some don’t.)
I suspect a 3.0 is probably doing well, compared to the class. But if it’s just not the right fit, I’m sure many schools would welcome a CMU 3.0 ECE major - schools know what that means.
She just finished finals. These kids are frazzled. Give her time to compare notes with friends at other colleges. Our Class of 21 kiddos have gone through so much. Grading in college is not like high schools. The tests and the workload take time to adjust to in a normal first year, never mind coming in with gaps in knowledge from Covid.
She may go back with a fresh perspective ready to rock semester 2 and she may get some applications ready for transfers options, if needed. Your support is everything.
Thank you for being thoughtful about what may be best for her. There are so many kids dealing with mental health issues right now and we need to be checking on them. She should be proud of earning that 3.0. It is great.
Transitions are SO hard. Transitioning to CMU may be harder than working at a high level in high school.
Discerning if it’s a stress culture/pressure cooker is very different from assessing a 3.0 ECE gpa (which sounds quite good).
As my kid looks at CMU from the vantage point from his pressure cooker high school, I might ask:
Do you like the challenge?
Are you overwhelmed?
What would help?
What would help you feel more connected?
How can I help?
Part of the issue at top colleges is no one ever struggled b4.
While my son is at Alabama he was your top 2% student, 12 APs, 4.6 weighted. Maybe not CMU but he got Purdue and merit.
He goes to Alabama…not even on the same planet as CMU. He’s already withdrawn from two classes (through 5 semesters). We had the nightly phone calls of I’m going to fail out…in fact happens every semester including this. Final result this semester. 2 A+, A, 2 B- including a class he thought he’d fail. He had one B in all of HS yet has had Cs and B minus in college, not to mention dropped courses.
Everyone there is a top student so when they falter they have a hard time dealing. When they’re at a lesser school, it’s really hard for them to accept. She’s not alone.
It’s intense everywhere. Maybe not CMU intense but intense. That’s what you sign up for in that major…anywhere.
So is the major not right ? Is she having trouble adapting socially ? Is she getting exercise, eating well, doing things outside class.
Tons of kids struggle. It’s way too early to give up. If it’s not right, it’s ok to transfer. People do every year. But transferring is no guarantee of happiness.
I think she’s be fine to transfer and schools will look at her favorably.
But no matter where she goes, it will be intense in that major but also hopefully collaborative.
She’s doing great. Good luck to her.
All of this! I had one of those calls tonight! “Just get though the Calc 2 final tomorrow…a C sounds great.” Also a top student with offers all over and thought we were picking a little less stressful option, but these kids have never seen grading like this. It will be good to have them all home. Long first semester for students and parents!!
I wonder how well the HIgh Schools are prepping our kids ?
College classes seem to make APs look like second grade.
My daughter, at College of Charleston, got 9 credits of A and four of A-.
The other credits ? Dropped the class…tested In by AP yet was totally lost by teaching style, context, and the I’m too intimidated and scared to go to office hours…or was it the I thought I understood and now it’s too late.
Already has a withdrawal.
College is an entirely different game.
Thank you for all your replies and reassurance. I truly believe that her 3.0 is an amazing feat for ECE at CMU. Both myself and my daughter have no issue with what her GPA is or will be if she stays at CMU. The only concern is whether it will put her at a disadvantage if she decides to transfer. However, it sounds like other schools will be understanding, especially given her major and the fact that it is CMU.
While college can be an adjustment to a new workload and grading system, my daughter’s main issue is the consensus that working as much as physically possible is not only expected but desired. Many of her peers will “brag” about how little sleep they get each night. Being involved in extracurricular activities is considered fine if it is a break to relieve stress but not as a valued activity. It also appears that even with the best study habits, the workload is often 10-12 hours a day and does not improve over the next 3 years. After having attended a parent’s weekend engineering seminar, I came to the conclusion that kids just learn to adapt to the schedule, coming to terms with the fact that 15-minute breaks or the occasional dinner with friends is all that can be expected at CMU (in certain majors). All the engineering kids that spoke described needing to seek mental health services at some point. My daughter is also finding that most CS/ECE majors are looking to be software engineers at top companies and are willing to “suffer” in order to achieve this outcome. Given my daughter is unsure what she wants to do in her career and probably will not be a software engineer, I’m not sure the mental health risks are worth it for her. That said, she will be exploring a possible switch to an Information Systems major and may find that this is a better fit for her. She will also apply to several schools as a transfer and make a final decision at the end of the Spring semester. Thanks again!
The basic rule of thumb is for every hour in class, a student should expect do two- three hours of work outside of class. My D is usually right around that mark. So depending on course load, 10-12 hours/day inclusive of attending class seems about right if it’s M-F.
What does worry me for your D is the “bragging about how little sleep they are getting,” not valuing ECs, everyone needing mental health services, and most importantly the word “suffering.” If that’s how your D is feeling, I would definitely encourage her to transfer. That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
My D works super hard at school (we saw first hand after pandemic and finishing out a semester at our dining room table) but she has time for meaningful ECs and friendship connections. She typically worked 14 hours days M-F but that was inclusive of her clubs and breaks to chat with friends. Her study groups were all friend based too so they would be working but also socializing. There was a ton of laughter and she has found a good balance. I hope your D will find the same!
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, the 10-12 hours of work does not include classes which is why so many kids stay up so late. She loves theater and would love to join an a cappella group but can’t imagine finding time for that each day. Since she is not in love with ECE as a major and probably does not want to be a software engineer, it certainly makes sense for her to explore other majors. Hopefully she will find more balance next semester and can be in a better place to make decisions for sophomore year.
I just sent you a DM
Theater is my D’s main for fun EC. I hope your D can find time to do those things that feed her spirit!
For many students, transitioning to any college may be harder than working at a high level in high school.