Transferring out of Wesleyan

I wouldn’t necessarily write off Denison if there are things about it that attract the OP. My son, who graduated in 2023, is a person of color and loved the school. He was very put off by some of the schools we visited that had a more activist and politically correct culture and liked that Denison was not like that. He had friends across the political spectrum as well as across other racial and cultural lines and it enriched his experience there. Denison is known for its merit aid, and I think one advantage that brings is that the student body is not divided neatly into students who are full-pay and students who qualify for financial aid - the so-called “donut hole” is also represented, which makes for a more naturally diverse environment. As to Ohio, I was also a bit worried when he chose a Midwest school, but he really enjoyed the area around Denison and wouldn’t hesitate to go back. Granville itself is a beautiful little town and the school is only a half an hour from Columbus, which is a very vibrant city.

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So, this why so many people are afraid of clowns! Seriously, I can remember one art professor who only encouraged abstract art in his beginner’s class. People who just wanted to paint portraits of their friends tended to avoid his class. But that was eons ago; he’s probably dead by now. Even if those people exist among the student body, I’ve been to enough student recitals and dance concerts packed with students of color, to know that they are no way near the predominant culture at Wesleyan.

I’ve posted about the film series. I can also attest to a Black Arts opening night that took place in the Digital Arts Center (the old Davison arts center) shortly before Thanksgiving. People wore colorful, second-hand clothing. They served food. It was a very relaxed, low-key atmosphere. There were some film shorts being played on a continuous loop; all I had to do was sit there and someone struck up a conversation with me. As an oldster who had been given minimal information about it, not even sure of the location, I was able to walk into the University Center where a smiling undergraduate was able to look it up and give me the details. Honestly, if an old guy like me can maneuver around the Wesleyan campus, I’m pretty sure a 17-year-old student can likewise find their way to a pleasant evening complete with free food.

Also, I’d like to echo something that was said upstream: attending an elite college isn’t meant to be the happiest four years of your life. Not anymore. These extracurriculars are enrichments; an occasion to take a deep breath. I can remember joking about how Swarthmore was full of workaholics playing misery poker. Well, guess what? We’re all Swarthmore now. The kid I met at a film showing is currently at work on his honors thesis. It takes him a week just to return a simple text message. The guy who invited me to the Black Arts opening is a year behind the thesis writer (both African American males) and they have never met each other which astounds me. But it’s indicative of how busy they both are. College is pretty much a job now.

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Just to bring us back to the reason for this discussion, visual and performing arts combined make up less than 20% of the degrees pursued by students there. I’ve walked that campus many times, at varying times of day, times of the week and seasons of the year. My D walked it 100s of times. There is no group or cohort of marauding artists running around and making people feel badly about themselves for not dressing, acting or otherwise expressing themselves artistically. You can rarely if ever even spot the artists; they generally don’t wear a uniform. But this student feels their presence and doesn’t like it. With that information in hand, the question is where they should go next.

Seems to me that a larger, perhaps much larger, student body would be one thing to really think about since there will inevitably be some group doing something or standing for something or pushing something that will not be one’s cup of tea. If you’re feeling it from the 20% of 3,000 students (and that’s assuming all 20% are outwardly expressive, which is not the case, I can assure you), it seems the person should go for at least a doubling of that amount to dilute the effects of other things that will bother them. And other things will bother them, as others have pointed out. There’s no school, for example, that won’t have an athlete/non-athlete divide. It’s not about it not being there; it’s about noticing it and feeling it in your every day life on campus. Every model has drawbacks, and that is one of the drawbacks of the small school model.

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And now for a little humor (and maybe validation for the OP) A Valentine-themed ranking of Wesleyan Majors:
SafeWords: Naughty and Nice—A Definitive, Unbiased Ranking of the Best and Worst Wesleyan Majors to Go Steady With – The Wesleyan Argus

Say what you will about Wesleyan students, they are not lacking in self-awareness.

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I’m guessing that’s because it was the summer. My D graduated in 2024. Students regularly used the Jitney (campus shuttle) to get off campus and go into town. That said, going into Utica is not the same as going into NYC or Philadelphia. :wink:

OP:

We’re African American and my D20 loved Hamilton. (In fact, I’m in mourning I no longer get to visit the campus :joy:) It was a wonderful four years—even with the 2020 COVID mess. If you have any questions about the college and campus life there as a POC, PM me.

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This is not universal by any means. College students have agency and can CHOOSE to treat it like an apprenticeship before jumping on the career hamster wheel, or can CHOOSE to create the kind of balance between studying, working, volunteering, the arts, athletics, etc. that works for them.

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College course work is supposed to have a time commitment of 3 hours per week for each credit, so a 15 credit course load is nominally 45 hours of work per week, not all that different from the time spent at a full time job. (Actual amount of work may vary.)

This does leave time for other activities besides school or work.

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It’s messy. Think back to your own undergraduate years. How many nights did you actually spend getting eight hours sleep? I didn’t. And a lot of my following day was spent dragging my a** between classes. So, it’s not quite analogous to punching a clock. Those 45 hours of work per week are in fits and starts and don’t always line up neatly with rehearsals for the glee club, deadlines for the school paper, participation in the student assembly - or dating in the formal sense.

Um, just trying to keep the thread alive.

The OP can comment if they want the thread kept alive.

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Okay but now you have a glimpse of how I wasted my time as an undergraduate. :grin:

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Wow! Thanks everyone for your responses! I have been caught up with school work but finally have a chance to respond. I have had a chance to think about this more deeply over the past few days. I don’t have a problem with the arts. I am a prospective double major with music, regardless of where I end up going or staying. I love making and playing music and have played hundreds of performances in my life. It definitely has a lot to do with fit and I suppose Wesleyan students are …“alternative” would be the right word. From what I see, a lot of Wesleyan students all dress a certain way, want to play in bands with the same genre of music, perhaps “hipster” would be the right word, regardless of whether they are in a artsy major or not and I think @gardenstategal’s comments echoes my thoughts best. They all have a certain mindset of “We have to do theatre and attend protests” and their major has nothing to do with it. There are also very few casual clubs that meet on a weekly basis, most of which are theatre and plays, making it harder to integrate within the student body.

My belief is that this is primarily due to the type of students whom Wesleyan admits (and are interested in applying in the first place), and they are a very specific niche type of student. I thought that I was this type of applicant years ago when I was looking at schools and looking back, I still think I made the right choice to ED. Even if I didn’t apply early, back then, if I had a choice between Wesleyan or its peers, I’m confident the person I was would still have chosen it. I think I have changed so much to the point where I now fit the demographics of a kid who would apply and whose first choice would have been Williams or Hamilton and not one who would have applied or considered Wesleyan. Or that it may be that I have experienced Wesleyan so much that my little knowledge of other schools make it seem like they are better options. Regardless, I feel that I have to try to improve my situation.

As for the political part, it has to do with both the short-sighted views of the students and being too much part of the culture. Politics was not a factor in deciding which colleges to apply to as that was probably the last thing on my mind. My parents have always encouraged me to explore a wide variety of world views and interests, as they had not have the chance or education to do so. My personal view is that Wesleyan students aren’t interested in politics but rather in affirming their own beliefs. I knew that Wesleyan had a reputation for being politically active but I think I waved it off as that they would have more intelligent and open conversations rather than spewing the same three points over and over. My knowledge of politics in universities is that they all seem to shift a certain way but it absolutely is much more louder at Wesleyan when compared to its peer schools where it is much more subtle. Besides, on paper, Wesleyan had too much to offer me from its amazing ethnomusicology program to being very easy to double major in, to being promoted as one of the only universities and LACs to mix arts and academics together. It seemed like the right fit. Nowadays, I know that Wesleyan’s strengths are not exclusive to them and I can have a very similar and top-notch education at other institutions.

This, along with the fact that I have been struggling socially and seeing many of my friends who go to state schools be happy in their friend groups and not have to deal with the same problems I have to made me think to myself “I think I could be happier literally anywhere else”. There are only around 850 students in my grade at Wesleyan and once you factor out the international students, athletes, and artists, who stick to their own groups and make up the vast majority of the school, you’re down to only so few people.

It’s been said that most of the time spent in college and the value of college isn’t in classes or in school work with which you would forget the material once the course is over, but rather who you meet and who you have experiences with. If I really wanted to, I could graduate a year early but I don’t think that’s the point of college. I’m supposed to explore and socialize and grow and I find it hard to do so at Wes. Perhaps, I do crave a larger student body with where “diversity” is more prevalent, just because it is a larger school.

I’m still very conflicted. I have to submit applications soon and I’m still deciding on which schools and have to deal with the troubles of getting transcripts and reccs, etc. I’m not going to make a decision until I get my results back and likely this would be a end of the semester decision. Thanks for your comments everyone! I really appreciate the insight and sometimes I feel like I have no one to talk to about this.

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Thoughtful post. Perhaps consider going bigger than a SLAC environment. Midsize schools that still have small class sizes, strong alum networks and dedicated professors exist and may also give you a larger population of personalities to spend time with. Washu, Tufts, Emory, Rice, CMU, etc…you’d have to decide where your major and interests align with which school. But some of the issue seems being in a small place with limited likeminded folks. Good luck to you.

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I also think the student needs to be cognizant of finances as they are low income.

It may require a less competitive school name and OP said the public won’t work, and we don’t know the budget, but many have low income programs.

Some things OP wrote - such as it wasn’t about politics per se as they are open to several things but people proving their point - well that’s in life - sadly - most aren’t open.

I wish OP the best but I would take “elite” name out of the equation - as one time already that’s hurt. Unfortunately, for kids on a strict budget, choice is sometimes taken away - as a tradeoff for affordability. It’s great to say I should have applied to a Hamilton but then you could have gotten rejected. When you’re dealing with low admit schools, one never knows.

No notes.

I echo what others said about your post being thoughtful and heartfelt. This part of your post really jumped out at me. I appreciate what you’re going through.

I have two conflicting bits of advice in response:

  1. You should stay. You are in a new environment and are still adjusting. It takes time. Your peers at Wes are not the monolith you think them to be. I assure you of that but also appreciate that you perceive what you perceive. I am confident, however, that if you gave it a little time, your social struggles would improve and you would find your crowd.
  2. You should go. You’re not happy and that is likely distracting you from what you went there to do. In looking for a transfer destination, I will just repeat what I’ve said: go to a different type of school and a bigger school. The size is a problem because anything that is going on that is cutting against your grain is felt so directly on a small campus. You mentioned the athlete/non-athlete divide. I have two college athletes and I can tell you from experience that that specific issue is actually worse at many other small colleges, including (perhaps especially so) at the other NESACs. At a larger school, you won’t feel it, notice it or care. Same with other groups or social dynamics that don’t fit with you. The LACs in the NESCAC have much more in common than they do differences.

Setting aside whether you can really accurately asses the political views of the general student body, I think that if this issue with political expression is a hot button for you, which is completely fair if that’s the case, then attending another LAC in New England is a bit of a head scratcher. There are also some mid-sized universities you’ll want to steer clear of as well. So, definitely not “literally anywhere else”.

From my D’s 4 years at Wes and our time spent there, I can say with a straight face that my state flagship had (and still has) at least as much political expression as does Wesleyan. But there are north of 30,000 students there, so even if that would have bothered me, I would not have cared. Give some real thought to going to a bigger school.

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best.

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Just want to say that your post was heartfelt and thoughtful.
– If you stay, consider doing a program abroad or at a partner US college. It would give you some time away from campus and some additional perspective.
–If you look to transfer, I echo those suggesting looking at somewhat larger schools. I do believe each LAC has it’s own distinctive vibe, there are also plenty of commonalities.

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This reminds me of my state flagship as well. There were marches happening all the time and some of my high school classmates found their groove getting really politically active. I was not involved in any of that…we could not have had more different lives but we all found our people and had full college experiences. My son is at a SLAC and it has been an amazing experience for him in many ways (and likely would have been better for me as well in hindsight). He’s actually done fine socially but also finds that while a big portion of his friends rabidly love the small college experience he is finding it too small at times.

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Yesterday, I was in Virginia Beach and the person I am dealing with’s daughter chose Christopher Newport U over UVA because of the political climate at UVA (which the parent described as leaning heavily in one direction).

While I think there are pockets for most everyone most everywhere and that most kids are apolitical, then going to a less profile school might be a win for a student.

I think when the student thought there would be open conversation - that’s nice in belief but just not the reality of society. People get their “beliefs” and they are typically inflexible to change.

So I hope OP looks for a less divisive school in that sense.

One thing I might point out is that according to Wesleyan’s Gordon Career Center website, nearly 20% of Wesleyan’s graduating classes find work -actual employment - in the arts and entertainment industries. That’s an awful lot of graduates for a small New England college that 50 years ago was all-male and still had 9 or 10 active fraternities. It makes sense that a lot of them are going to have professional aspirations and are not just being intellectually curious, not to mention the fact that there are a lot of LACs out there that would give their eye teeth for free entertainment virtually every night of the week.

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OP- make sure you take a serious look at some of the Catholic colleges (even if you aren’t Catholic). Many of them have the kind of climate you are looking for- serious debates about policy, social activism, etc. that don’t get “strident” or divisive. The rosters of the speakers, guest lecturers, etc. who come to campus can demonstrate how “inclusive” (hard though it is to believe) the campus can be even when discussing thorny issues. The faculty and administration also tends to be centrist overall, even when they span the spectrum in their individual beliefs. That could be a combo that works for you.

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