Transient, Drug Addicted, Homeless

Parent Cafe
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In the USA, poverty has been criminalized. The poor are considered lazy and evil - the way that people describe the situation “they have shelters but they don’t want to go there” as though the homeless were staying out in the streets for the sole purpose to make the lives of “good people like us” miserable.

How little compassion can a person have when they think that a homeless person is refusing to go to a shelter for nefarious reasons, rather than thinking “how bad is it there that they prefer to stay on the streets?”. How can people have so little empathy that when they look at homeless all they can think about is “these are criminals, we must get rid of them”. How little humanity is left in people that they see homeless kids as nothing more than things that reduce their quality of life. How little kindness does a person have that the only thing they want to do with the homeless is to hide them where they cannot be seen.

I truly have difficulty fathoming how some people here find it so easy to dehumanize people whose main “crime” is that their luck, mentally illness, or debilitating addiction has left them homeless.

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Unfortunately, many cities may soon find homeless populations, exploding

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There is a ballot issue in Denver to allow camping in all public parks. It is a well funded campaign on both sides, but I don’t know anyone who is for this. How Denver currently enforces the rules is by officially closing the parks at 11 pm or midnight until dawn, and requiring permits for tents or shelters in parks. However, there are a lot of areas where the police have to clear out all the time. There is a canal system through the city that allows run-off, but also serves as bike and walking trails through a lot of neighborhoods. These are people’s backyards and no, they don’t want people camping in them.

We also have a river that is usually gentle so many homeless like to camp up under the bridges. Fine, until a flash flood comes through and then safety officers have to risk their lives to rescue the people and pets.

There are a few businesses who really do care about the homeless. There is a McDonald’s right across from a building I work in sometimes, and they allow them in when it is freezing outside, and do their best to keep the paying customers happy while showing kindness to the homeless. However, the homeless have ruined the downtown public library because it is almost unsafe to relax and read there. And smelly.

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Spare me the virtue-signalling lecture. I have plenty of sympathy for the homeless, and have volunteered for years helping them. But one of the reasons Houston has had a 50% decline in homelessness since 2011 (with a brief uptickafter Harvey) is because of a rational and clear eyed assessment of the roots of the problem and what is going to work to fix it. Platitudes do not help. Recognizing that homeless families can and usually will be able to be helped, but that the severely mentally ill often can’t be (at least willingly) allows resources to be targeted most effectively. Some percentage of the homeless do articulate that they prefer to live on the streets rather than give up their independence. How that affects the rest of us is the issue.

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People have free will and some people want to be homeless. I would not assume they are mentally ill.

Places with good weather will have more people whom choose to live on the streets.

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Typical city-sponsored and church-sponsored shelters have strict no drugs no alcohol no smoking etc. policies. No wonder substance abisers do not want to go to shelters or even those tiny house villages where living spaces are more private.

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Mwolf… I don’t think you live in my particular beach city. Let me draw a picture of the types that have moved onto our streets. They are proud of their way of life… living in vans or RVs for free at the beach and in the parks. They have chosen this life. They panhandle and lay around on the grass and sea walls. They are ‘free’ of having to work for the ‘man’ or pay taxes. One of my neighbors was walking with their son and he asked them to please stop shooting up (or something that shouldn’t be done at a public park) and the men started spitting on him and pushing and shoving. They block the sidewalks and local businesses are losing a lot of business. The Starbucks had to completely remove any indoor or outdoor seating, take out counter only. They have absolutely no interest in any shelters or services or rehab. Usually in their 20s and early 30s and on the Internet with blogs and posts highlighting their lifestyle.

The worst part is there are no sanitation services to support their lifestyle so they are very creative with dumping jugs of urine and defecating in people’s yards. No one in their right mind would even enter the beach restroom or parking lot which means that unwitting tourists better watch out.

Yes, we want them gone… or at least not living in their vans all over the beach.

We also have a lot of traditional homeless that definitely need help, but now we have this new type of transient population that are really wreaking havoc

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Redacted.

@coralbrook I agree that those do not seem like the normal homeless population. Actually, if they have RVs they are not, technically, homeless. They are squatters, and should be treated as such. However, I do not think that they constitute more than a fraction of the population of homeless.

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@coralbrook - we have quite a few of those types here, too. And we also have organizations that don’t want these homeless folks to disappear or get back on their feet because that’s how they get the funding that pays their salaries. SHARE is the worst scam out there.

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In the SF Bay Area, people do in fact fear unhoused people living in cars and RVs. Those people are run out of towns. And the people here who live in RVs are doing it because there is not enough housing and housing prices are absolutely out of control, not, in general, because they love the delightful idea of living in an RV on the street. If we upzoned and built more, a lot more, housing, including housing like SROs, we wouldn’t deal with the people who are homeless because they’re mentally ill, but we would deal with a lot of homelessness.

Homeless people fear for their safety in shelters for good reason. Shelters are unsafe and unpleasant. I’d live on the streets before I’d live in a shelter.

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And a limit on how much stuff they can bring into the shelters. Some shelters only let people bring in what would fit in a locker or what they need for a few nights. The homeless people have no where to store their belongings and can’t bring shopping carts full of items with them.

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In the SF Bay Area, we have two homeless problems, which are going to need two different solutions. We have the mentally ill or drug-addicted people, who need intensive government interventions that cost money. And we have people who just can’t afford housing just because the cost is ridiculously high. Their housing could be provided by private businesses if we made it easier to build by getting rid of excessive regulations and restrictive zoning.

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The USA has kept the minimum wage low as food, rent and healthcare have risen. An enormous proportion of the “middle class” are a medical crisis away from joining the homeless. If you have joined the homeless you are trapped, since you cannot get a job without an address, nor can you have a bank account. shelters are dangerous, especially if you’re being paid in cash, and most jobs that one can get while being homeless do not pay enough to pay the deposit for rent, which will be especially high if you’re homeless. Even if you don’t have any mental illness before that, being homeless erodes your self esteem, your self confidence, your sense of self. You lose everything that you own, things like photos, diplomas, everything you have that reminds you of your past - it will be taken from you on the street, but you have nowhere to keep it. Depression, anxiety constant fear are also results of being forced out of your home and living on the streets. of course, your chance of being physically and sexually assaulted skyrocket, and harassment is pretty common.

I do not know why some people think that putting the homeless in jail will solve these problems.

Homelessness in a big problem, and doing things like throwing them in jail just forces them either to the shadows, or to another city. If all you care about is not having them mar your streets, than indeed, you’ve “solved the problem” by making it a crime to be homeless on the streets. That is the preferred solution of many people, the same way they solve the issue of high poverty areas by gentrification - kick all the poor people them to somewhere else, preferably an area that it far from where the wealthy live.

As the proportion and number of families and individuals in the lower income tiers continues to grow, so will the number of people living on the edge, and consequently, so will the number of people falling off the edge into homelessness. Unless somebody wants to take yet another step towards third-world status, and create shantytowns out of the eyes of the middle class, this needs to be solved. It will not be solved by tossing them in jail for living on the streets. It will require treatment for the mentally ill, treatment for addicts, and cheap functional housing (not the disaster that is the Projects). It will mean minimum wage that is also living wage, and jobs. It will cost money, meaning increased taxes.

But I guess that writing anything but “they’re all lazy bums who should be put in jail until the get an honest job” is to be considered “virtue signaling”.

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I would like to see a subsidizing of minimum wage. Meaning, for those working at minimum wage jobs, the government will subsidize you to a certain salary level beyond that. This would be for adults trying to support themselves.

This way, people are working for their entitlement. It also takes the cost of an increased minimum wage out of the small business owner or other employer so that higher wages do not lead to decreased jobs. In NY we are increasing minimum wage and we are already seeing businesses hire less workers and/or use automation/technology to eliminate jobs.

Working and earning your money, rather than a handout, gives a person self-esteem, a sense of dignity/belonging and can lead to the “next step” in the workforce.

I also believe this country has never truly been serous about the drug problem. Start with eliminating the source of drugs.

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Communities and, more importantly, our nation needs to solve core issues to solve this growing homeless population and, IMO, that starts with better mental health options, better income equality, better treatment of our vets (which make up a solid percentage of the homeless), easier access to and better addiction treatment facilities, and better job training to name a few things. Think of the root causes. Treat the problems not the symptoms.

Yet, many in this country vote with short-sighted, selfish goals or against their best interests.

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I’ve said it before - I’m 100% sure my mentally ill son would be on the streets if he didn’t have his dad and me advocating for him constantly. It was VERY hard getting him all the support he needs, and he still crashes occasionally (70 days in the hospital recently). From our experiences with him, I understand why it’s so hard to keep some people off the streets - there’s no way case managers can do the job - our son’s CM told me she has 30 clients!!

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“Spare me the virtue-signalling lecture.”

I really dislike the use of the term “virtue-signalling” as a rhetorical tactic. I find it lazy, mendacious, insulting, and dismissive of genuine concern. It seems to be used glibly to cut off valid conversation by those with thoughtful viewpoints.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/20/virtue-signalling-putdown-passed-sell-by-date

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Tell us how you really feel ?

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Has any country solved their poverty problem? Between those who choose a different lifestyle, those who are mentally incapable of “normal” living, those who are capable and don’t get lucky breaks to help, and those who get addicted to drugs of various sorts dropping them into the life - is there any country that has figured it out successfully?

I think many people want to help those who are solely missing the “lucky breaks,” but even then, many fall through the cracks because - well - that’s where the word “luck” plays a part. (That can be education, medical, and/or just pure opportunity needs.)

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D23 volunteers in our local homeless shelter/halfway house - it’s a place where people can stay until they can afford housing. There are job programs and a big playground for the kids (there are families living there) and an area for the terminally ill who can’t afford to be in the hospital. It’s an excellent facility, and it is safe enough for me to feel fine with letting her volunteer there on her own (she has since she was 13). The people who run the place are compassionate - and very strict with the rules - and the cops bring people they find on the street there (after having them checked out at the hospital). Lots of just-starting-to-recover addicts are there, some women with kids who left their abusive spouses, folks who lost everything due to medical bills, etc. We do not live in a wealthy area, and the facilities are humble - but the place is there and supported by the entire community. I’m proud of our town for that.

We live in a small town in the middle of nowhere in the midst of forest and mountains, so obviously city shelters are going to be very different. Reading through this thread has made me grateful for what our little area has been able to do for people who never wanted to have unaffordable medical bills or an addiction or an abusive spouse etc etc.