<p>While applying to grad schools I keep going back to my parents for advice, but although they are both extremely bright and successful upper middle class professionals, neither has the slightest experience in post graduate study beyond professional certification programs and the like.</p>
<p>For instance, my father insists that I can get my MA by going to "night school" and then go on to an academic career (his only experience with graduate study was getting his MA in public administration at the local higher education center.) I usually counter that the kind of program that gets you into a PHD track is not offered at night school. Who, in your opinion, is right about this?</p>
<p>My father also tells me that the 3.0 GPA minimum is just "boilerplate" and I should apply anyway at places where I don't meet the GPA reqs posted online because GPA is less important when you've been out of school for a while (5 years in my case). I think he's nuts. Even with my nearly perfect GRE scores, I assume that unis wouldn't post 3.0 as a minimum unless they meant it, and I have told him so on many occasions. He says I'm being pessimistic and making up excuses for not moving on with my life.</p>
<p>Our most recent discussion involves letters of recommendation. Since I did not cultivate close relationships with most of the faculty as an undergrad, they think I should ask for an LOR from my high school German teacher, who is also a lifelong friend. Is this unbelievably naive? I respect the man a great deal, and his opinion is more important to me than that of most people, but I think using an old high school teacher as a reference on a grad school application would mark me as a lightweight.</p>
<p>Personally, I don't think getting grad school LOR from a high school teacher is a good idea. LOR from your current employer would be much more effective. </p>
<p>Also, even though you mentioned you did not stay in touch with most of the faculty as an undergard, you should still ask your former prof if they are willing to write you an average LOR.</p>
<p>I do not think night school is a good idea if you want an academic career and a grad degree in normal schools (ie not night only) will anyways be more recognisable for any profession.</p>
<p>even if there is a 3.0 minimum written for a paticular grad school, i think you should still apply to the school becaue they also look at other stuff like recos, experience, essay, gre, etc. there is no harm in trying right.</p>
<p>usually there is more than one recommendation needed for grad schools, 3 is the most common. so you can get a really good one from the high school teacher, and get two others (one from your college right now and other from an employer maybe)...when u go give them your essay, CV and talk to them to let them know you better. what you want to get out of going to grad school etc...</p>
<p>"[T]he kind of program that gets you into a PHD track is not offered at night school. Who, in your opinion, is right about this?"</p>
<p>You are correct that this is the case in most academic fields. Some "vocational" fields of study might be more flexible.</p>
<p>"My father also tells me that the 3.0 GPA minimum is just "boilerplate" and I should apply anyway at places where I don't meet the GPA reqs posted online because GPA is less important when you've been out of school for a while..."</p>
<p>Again, you would be correct in terms of most academic programs. Vocational programs are often more flexible. However, since you have been out of school for some time, there may be program with such a minimum that might consider your application anyway. Contact the DGS in each program to be sure.</p>
<p>"[T]hey think I should ask for an LOR from my high school German teacher, who is also a lifelong friend..."</p>
<p>Absolutely not. Most academic graduate programs would dismiss such a letter outright. Letters MUST come from former professors at the undergraduate level. Only such persons can adequately testify to your academic strengths and weaknesses, performance as an undergraduate in your intended field of study, and research capabilities. Again, many more "vocational" graduate programs are more flexible in this matter, accepting, for instance, LORs from employers, particularly if the nature of your work was directly related to your intended field of specialization. However, in no case would a high school teacher's letter be appropriate.</p>
<p>Note: by "vocational" fields, I refer to fields like social work, audiology, education, etc.</p>
<p>My suggestion? Buddy up with a favorite professor from college (whoever you liked the best in your field of interest) and seek help and advice (make him/her your mentor) and.... ignore your dad. That's what I did- relied much more on my professors to figure out some aspects of graduate school admissions than my own parents (however highly educated my ABD dad is). You might find yourself needing them for moral support too...</p>
<p>You need to tell your dad over... and over... and over... that graduate school is a very different playing field from undergraduate and high school. What worked back then isn't going to work for graduate school. It's basically like applying to a very selective job with picky graduate admissions and (elitist, subjective) professors (though they are actually pretty decent people :)). You just need to hammer that in his head and he'll get it once you get your decisions. It'll be learning process for the two of you with you doing all the work. Just be very patient- it'll pay off at the end!</p>
<p>Night school isn't going to get you into PhD track, my opinion of course.</p>
<p>You can apply to schools with GPA lower than 3.0 and still be considered competitive since you've been out a while(experience helps a ton). So I believe your dad was right to a degree(it really matters on that school, and what field), some schools won't look at it, some will. It kinda boils down to how much money you've got to throw around. Or better yet, like Prof X said, contact the school and find out if they'd look at your application.</p>
<p>From what it sounds like, the letter from your german teacher is worth nadda unless he has a PhD or something significant. Otherwise its more of a personal reference letter, afterall its been almost a decade since this guy taught you, at high school level, so this tells little about what potential you have at the PhD or MA level. The letter would do fine though if you were trying to get a loan or trying to get into college for a Bachelors degree.</p>
<p>You need to have references from professors in your field. You could take a few courses from a night school as a non-degree student and use those professors as reference writers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I usually counter that the kind of program that gets you into a PHD track is not offered at night school. Who, in your opinion, is right about this?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Depends on what you mean by "night school". If you mean a continuing ed program, you might be right (not always, though - people have used Harvard Extension's master's programs as PhD springboards, for instance). But there are many reputable programs that offer at least some portion of their classes in the evenings, so that part-timers who work during the day can attend. It's rather offensive to all the part-timers here taking evening classes to act like their programs are inferior.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My father also tells me that the 3.0 GPA minimum is just "boilerplate" and I should apply anyway at places where I don't meet the GPA reqs posted online because GPA is less important when you've been out of school for a while (5 years in my case). I think he's nuts.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>On this one, he's right, you're wrong (in general). I definitely know people who got into places without meeting a supposedly minimum GPA req, by having other excellent qualifications (in one case, the person got into a top 5 program in her field). If I were you, I'd ignore the GPA minimums. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Since I did not cultivate close relationships with most of the faculty as an undergrad, they think I should ask for an LOR from my high school German teacher, who is also a lifelong friend. Is this unbelievably naive?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For this one, you're right, they're wrong. Your high school German teacher cannot speak to your ability to succeed in their program with any credibility.</p>
<p>On this one, he's right, you're wrong (in general). I definitely know people >who got into places without meeting a supposedly minimum GPA req, by >having other excellent qualifications (in one case, the person got into a top >5 program in her field). If I were you, I'd ignore the GPA minimums. </p>
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<p>Well, that's encouraging. Of course, the only thing that's "excellent" about my application will be my GRE scores, I'm pretty sure. And my in-major undergrad GPA wasn't as bad as I remembered.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for your courteous and helpful responses.</p>
<p>A lot will depend on the field and the school. At many schools with graduate programs, unless they are very in demand program, guidelines are much more flexible than they may appear. </p>
<p>A lower than requested GPA carries less weight the longer you've been out of school. High GRE will certainly offset that.</p>
<p>A detailed LOR from someone who knows you well, if you've maintained a relationship with the person and they can speak knowledgeably about your activities since hs, is better than a generic letter from a college prof who can't really remember much about you. This is especially true since you've been out of school for 5 years. However, a LOR form your current employer would be best if you could only have one.</p>
<p>I agree that night school is not the way to go if you are interested in an academic career. </p>
<p>There are many excellent graduate programs out there. Be aware that there are any number of programs who will take almost anyone if you don't require an assistantship. Even those with low GPAs can be admitted provisionally or as a nondeclared major with a semester to prove yourself.</p>
