<p>I was reading an interview with Scarlett Johansson, who claimed that we are who we are at age 12 or 13 (this from someone just turning 21).</p>
<p>Other posters on this board have mentioned how their teens have changed so that what was a good pick for a college at the beginning of the senior year of high school may not be the right choice by the time spring rolls around.</p>
<p>I’ve also heard stories of indifferent high school students who blossom when they get to college.</p>
<p>At what age do you think the true essence of an individual is revealed?</p>
<p>I think 12 is an important age. It is an age when children are trying to figure out who they are and begin to make decisions, their own decisions, not their parents, and sometimes set themselves on a course that can last a lifetime. But that doesn’t mean that they can’t change dramatically over the years, it is hardly a done deal, more like the beginning of growing up.</p>
<p>Part of my interest in this question is how much influence we can have over our kids, for example, does nagging actually produce results, or will the child’s resistance to being told what to do actually be a detriment to the process of maturing?</p>
<p>There was an actress who was asked, do you wish you were famous early in your life, and she said no, that if you look at many musicians, actors, etc, that they kind of froze emotionally and mentaly in time when they got rich and famous, look at that show where almost all the actors have serious issues, look at some of our starlets today-britney etc</p>
<p>So, i know it is not the case for all, but it was the case for many</p>
<p>I don’t know whether we “are who we are” at 12 or 13. But, if so, I don’t think that is incompatible with blossoming later. </p>
<p>Perhaps we are who we are in terms of our ethics, moral grounding, Myers-Brigg type (introvert/extrovert…) and certain other traits. Doesn’t mean we don’t continue to mature, change priorities, explore new things, decide to fully develop or use our talents (in something other than online RPGs for example? :p)</p>
<p>I guess I hope we are a work in progress forever, and feel I <em>know</em> that there is a ton of maturing and developing between, say, 12 and 19 (my son’s current age) and a ton of wisdom gained through experience between 12 and the over-50 years which I now carry, but how much of our essence has been determined by age 12 I don’t know</p>
<p>Good question, fendrock. I don’t know. With my older kids I can see some areas where we parents had an influence and some areas where we did not, so all I can say is try, and back off if it seems to be having a negative affect. Sometimes the best effect we can have is not with nagging, but by steering the kids toward or away from things. If you are less obvious about it, (at the age of 12 and older–younger kids are different, you can be totally obvious about it with your younger kids) you are more likely to have success. You know, if they believe it is “their” idea, they won’t buck it. I remember reading “Reviving Ophelia” when my now 16 year old D was around seven, and what I got from that is how very important it is for a girl (but I think this applies to boys too) to have some meaningful activities in their lives in place by the age of 12 to help get them through those turbulent emotional times, they need anchors, so to speak. The book talked about these girls who seemed to have it all together floundering, some going off the deep end in jr. high. It prompted me to get my girl involved in some things that have lasted, and which would have been difficult to get her involved in if I had waited until she was twelve. </p>
<p>I guess one of my strategies has been to try to get the kids involved in things where other adults and their peers will have a positive influence on them. For instance, our middle school (kind of a rough place in some ways) has a pretty good band, and one thing I tell parents whose kids are starting middle school there and are worried about it, is get your kid in band there, it will make things easier. There are several reasons, one is that the band directors are good, and it is a fun thing to be in at this school, and the other is that all of the band kids are tracked together, there are only two schedules that band kids will be on, so they will be in classes with other band kids (kids they know) and they won’t feel lonely–its a big school, and very possible for a child to get in classes with no friends, but not if you are in band! And also, playing music is a great emotional outlet. And the band is good, so the kids get lots of postive attention after every performance. That’s just one thing, and at another school, or for another child, it might be something different, but I think it is helpful for a lot of kids to feel like they are a part of something, some group like that.</p>
<p>I’ve heard a few people say that you know who someone is when they hit 25. </p>
<p>In my experience (as a mid-twenties-type person), this is largely true. I’ve known some people who were sweet during junior high and high school, but got weird once graduation was over; I’ve known immature people who finally started to grow up. I think you have to be truly independent of your parents before you are really “yourself” </p>
<p>Doesn’t mean parents don’t have an influence - in fact, it’s weird how much more like my dad I become as I get older.</p>
<p>Happily, both of my daughters have an activity (one ballet, one fencing) which interests them, because I, too, believe that it’s useful to be involved in a defining activity.</p>
<p>Twelve is also an age when kids (I think especially girls) become more interested in their social life, which can lead to aura of vapidness.</p>
<p>This is one of those things I hope kids mature out of (perhaps an outward sign would be wearing less make up and spending less time with the hair straightener).</p>
<p>ariesathena, good point about being truly independent of your parents. This was true for me personally, and I was probably married and in my 30s before it happened – not because I spent alot of time with my parents, but more because I felt free to live based on what I felt was right, not on whether or not it was something that would please my parents.</p>
<p>I sort of hope I can be more accepting of my children while they are still under our roof, so they can be themselves even if that “self” is not in the same mold as me or my husband.</p>
<p>If there was a year that my son morphed into someone new, it was at age 20 – when he dropped out of college & took a job in a quest to find himself… and did. That is the first time he really got passionate about anything, and he kind of came out of the introverted self he once was and reinvented himself as a people-person to do it. </p>
<p>If I look at my life in hindsight and try to find a pivotal moment at which I changed, I’d have to say that it was when I gave birth to my first child. I was a very ambitious, career-oriented person until then. Hormones did me in and I became a mama bear. Career? what career? I had a baby to protect. Suddenly I was scheduling my week around Gymboree and liking it. I was 29, but I don’t think the age mattered. I was never a maternal or nuturing type of person, and I didn’t like being around children… but somewhere buried inside there was a new mommy-persona waiting to emerge. </p>
<p>So I don’t really think that there is any age when our personalities become fixed – I think we are who we are until our life experiences lead us to change, whether that change comes at 12 or 25 or 80. Grandma Moses started painting at age 75. My own grandmother entered politics at that age, running for pubic office for the first time.</p>
<p>I also felt a certain freedom and sense of self when I finally (!) accepted that my mother was another human being and not placed on this planet just to torture me. I was a late bloomer in that department. I suspect that I am not alone in grappling with that because no matter what book is being discussed at my monthly book group, the conversation manages to get back to family relationships - most often mother/daughter issues.</p>
<p>Fendrock, I wonder if the delayed independence that I have observed in the older children of some of my friends, with many not becoming truly self-sufficient because of grad school or for other reasons until their late 20’s or early 30’s, means that the final emotional jump into adulthood can take place later for some of those who stay financially tied to Mom and Pop.</p>
<p>I once read a study showing that women who worked in fields that they were interested in as young girls were much happier in their professions than other women. However, it did not hold true for men. I wish I knew where I had seen that.</p>
<p>Elleneast–at what age did you have your epiphany about your mother? Just wondering. More than a few times lately, I’ve found myself trying to tell my girls (esp. the 12 year old), you know, I’m a PERSON too, with feelings. Message not received. Too soon, I guess. And yet, the seven year old knows that. So, there must be a phase of life, from about 11-12 years of age to ??? when parents are suddenly perceived as some sort of embarrassing (but occasionally useful) part of their lives that they have to endure until emancipation?</p>
<p>mstee, I am definitely an embarassment to my daughters at times (they are currently 12 and 14), yet I know that my opinions mean a lot to them, even though they might not admit it.</p>
<p>I try and keep a low profile. If I try and tell them something, the most common response is “I know!” I tell them that it is sad for me to become obsolete at such a young age.</p>
<p>It’s kind of interesting to speculate about the relationship between becoming financially independent/establishing a career and developing a sense of self.</p>
<p>citygirlsmom alluded to Britney Spears – for me, she’s an example of someone who is professionally successful but still has a lot of growing up to do.</p>
<p>And then, what about those of us who never find our professional niche? – I like calmom’s idea because it suggests it’s never too late for any of us…</p>
<p>I am sure that a therapist would have a field day with this but I didn’t completely “see” my mother until I was around forty and the slow role reversal began that happens as our parents age. That isn’t to say that there weren’t levels of understanding that came along the way. During high school I finally had enough independence and space not to need to battle over every little thing. When I headed off to college I found that I missed her and saw that she had her own issues. Raising my own child certainly helped me understand that even though the two of us are so stylistically different, she tried to be a good parent. </p>
<p>My biggest problem as a parent has been the changing of gears during each developmental leap. Going from Hands-on Mom to being almost exclusively Listening Mom and only giving advice when asked has been tough for me. Just as I am getting the hang of things the kid had to go and grow up. What can I say?..Once a late bloomer, always a late bloomer. I’m working on it and can only hope that my daughter will come to terms with me before she is middle-aged. ;)</p>
<p>I’m going to say that big changes are possible, based just on neurology.</p>
<p>There have been many articles in the press about the frontal lobes, the part that controls reasoning, aren’t fully developed until the 20’s. See, for example, <a href=“http://■■■■■■■.com/8mno6[/url]”>http://■■■■■■■.com/8mno6</a> Here’s a quote
<p>Guys generally develop at 12. They don’t change a whole lot from there. Girls seem to change, if they are going to change, at 15-16. That age seperates the lemons from the peaches.</p>
<p>I am sure that there is also something to the mother-thing and the financial independence thing.</p>
<p>My own mother died unexpectedly at age 48, when I was 24 – I do feel that aside from the normal grief, I did feel a real sense of a weight being lifted from my shoulders and gaining freedom to live my own life at that point. Not that my mother ever did anything to stand in my way … its just that I no longer had to worry about what she thought or try to please her. Whatever I was, I was no longer bound by being her daughter. </p>
<p>My son’s big change at age 20 was probably tied very much to his financial independence. When he decided to leave school I told him that I essentially gave him an ultimatim: either get a job or move out. He got the job first, moved out within about 3 months. He was promoted quickly on the job, plus he ended up traveling a lot – and he had a lot of responsibility. I hardly saw him at all, but when I did the change was really remarkable – he literally had become his own man. </p>
<p>Fendrock - I did also have a career change 11 years ago - at around age 40. I happen to work in a field that brings me in contact with a lot of other career-changers, and it is somewhat interesting to see what happens. The career change part is very exciting - everyone always feels very positive about that – but I have seen a lot of marriages break up when the woman makes the change, including my own. So changing jobs does bring on other life changes as well.</p>
<p>calmom - I’ve been home for five years after working in a male dominated industry for the 12 or so years prior to that.</p>
<p>I wonder sometimes if I’ll ever work again, and if so, what I would do. </p>
<p>Popular wisdom suggests that it’s impossible to be your own self without work outside the home; maybe the flip side of establishing a sense of self through independence from your parents is the need to have a sense of self independent of your husband and kids???</p>
<p>– not sure this is true, just that in some ways today’s culture supports the concept.</p>