Yes, my son did share a few unsavory incidents that went on at not just his frat, but others. He went to a state u not known for Greek Life. Some frats got into trouble while he was there, usually for alcohol incidents. One frat was an underground frat which, allegedly, was a major source of drugs on campus.
We did give our son one other condition about joining a frat, which was that he couldn’t join any frat that wasn’t in good standing on campus. I am pretty sure you can google “list of fraternities UA” and it will come up, along with whatever disciplinary action they are currently facing. You can dig a little further to find out which frats have gone underground off campus. It’s 100% fair to set a condition that they can’t join a frat that might develop a reputation that would make him ashamed to include that frat on a future job application.
As mentioned, hazing exists, for sure. I asked my son once to tell me about something they made him do and he said, “you really don’t want to know.” Maybe not necessarily forcing kids to drink gallons of vodka these days, but there are some pretty demeaning things I’ve read about.
Well, if you forbid it, he might just join an underground one off campus. You may never realize that the off campus house he lives in is an underground frat. Just playing devil’s advocate. So set conditions. As I mentioned, we told our son we would not pay for any of it, other than his housing and food costs. He never lived in the actual frat house, but he certainly paid dues, initiation fees, etc… Yes, he also had couple of ropey semesters and tanked his chances of transferring into the business school, but I don’t think he would trade the experience for straight A’s and living off campus.
There are a lot of bad stories, but there’s a reason Greek Life is still so popular. Most kids love it and get something good out of it.
I just read the entire 5 part series on substance about the Alabama Greek system. Stunned.
Of course, everyone knows that exclusive frats/clubs are ultimately about connections and power, but this expose is truly shocking. Seems as if U Alabama administration has no intention of effecting any real reform of the system, probably since so many who were in the system have gone on to positions of immense political and economic power in the state, and oppose reform of the Greek system there that helped them along the way.
What I don’t understand is why Alabama is offering such generous merit money to attract the brightest, highest achieving students, when at the same time the administration permits this out-of-control Greek system to continue to thrive, unchecked, on campus. It sounds as if injuries and sexual assault due to drunken hazing and drugging are not at all out of the ordinary. It’s all criminal activity, with the administration apparently making a concerted effort to look the other way.
The kid, HB, who had turned down Harvard to take the full ride at Alabama, only to wind up gang-beaten to a pulp and with brain damage, during a pledge event at a SAE frat house in fall of 2022, illustrates that the full ride at Alabama may come with more than the student and family had bargained for.
I don’t know the statistics, but there are reasonable people who have tried to estimate the number of “unreported” crimes and it’s truly staggering.
There are many, many administrators in universities who are skilled at sitting down with someone who has been the victim of a crime (usually sexual assault, sometimes what would be considered gang rape if it happened anywhere besides a frat house) who says with great empathy "Do you really want this to follow you for the next several years as it winds its way through the court system? Don’t you want to take a quick vacation to recover and then come back refreshed and put it behind you? "
And of course- they aren’t wrong. It is devastating to be victimized- and then re-victimized all over again as the court of popular opinion decides you were “asking for it”, dressed inappropriately, are a known $%^& on campus so what’s the harm if four men take advantage of you while you’re drunk, etc.
But the under-reporting of on-campus crimes makes it very difficult to separate the campuses where “crime” is a kid’s unattended laptop stolen in the library, vs. one where students are being assaulted in the name of “fun”, hazing, or “tradition”.
The Ivies have social clubs too that are extremely important for becoming connected to the children of rich and powerful families. Some have Frats, some have clubs that are not residential. But they are exclusive, and serve the same purpose. Most of the members were in some way socially connected to those in the club before they ever arrived at the school.
This is a very disturbing list of hazing deaths in the US going way back to the 1800s.
2 things stand out to me. In recent (last 20 years) hazing deaths, there is a huge geographic range including more California and midwestern schools than I would have suspected. And also it seems as if local fraternities are perhaps more dangerous than national ones, which makes sense.
I attended W&L in the 90s and was in a sorority and was never hazed, neither was my husband who was in a frat there. We were both shocked when New York Magazine published pictures of horrific hazing that occurred while we were students. We were completely unaware of it.
UA grad here and Greek Life alumnus (2005-2009) here to shed some light hopefully. When I was attending UA it was far more in-state students than it is today and even then all the fraternities had kids from all over the country. With that information it is even more out-of-state/region friendly now than it’s ever been so I can’t imagine being from the North is a big deal at all. The Greek system is and more than likely always will be geared more towards the conservative side. As far as “segregated” lets be honest with any group/club people that are like minded and have similar values are going to gravitate towards each other. That is no different no matter where you’re from and all you have to do is go to any cafeteria or work breakroom to see that even as adults all over the country people tend to sit with like minded and homogenous groups.
There are ways I’m sure to research which fraternities have a more academic concentration than others. You can probably join the University of Alabama parents facebook group and ask around. That might be the best option. If your son is like you say, “fun, social, smart, athletic” it won’t take him long to find the best group whether that is greek life or outside of that in academic group settings. UA has a reputation, fair or not, although I tend to lean to unfair in that everything that happens within the greek system there is seen through a spotlight.
It should also be required reading for anyone interested in rushing. I couldn’t get through it all (really just sickening), but even the instances from the 18th and 19th centuries still sound like they could have happened today.
But as @Lindagaf indicated, forbidding something can sometimes set someone up to do it, just because they were told not to. But I sure as heck would include a lot of the restrictions and suggestions from above, including having my kid get individual umbrella insurance (if it would cover something like this) if the kid became an officer.
So, I am a Northerner who has been living in various places in the South for sometime. Currently in Texas, but I wanted to comment on this. I think that there will be a lot of things you’ll need to adjust to sending him to Alabama. Its going to be quite different and quite southern even outside of the fraternity system. But, you have clearly raised a smart, responsible person. He will do well.
I’m sorry but linking an HBO documentary that was known to have an agenda is not the win you think it is. Based on that thread there are a ton of people that need to let go of that stereotype of southern schools and maybe actually visit instead of basing it on HBO or media. Because we all know media just absolutely adores the South and Alabama in particular. Hey if one does come from the North and decides Greek Life is not what they want, there are plenty of groups not associated with the Greeks they can get involved in. I don’t understand why anyone choosing a college wouldn’t do their research and visit the school for a weekend before applying/enrolling in said school.
I never said to watch the documentary, I said the thread contained discussion, much of it from people that were actually in sororities, of racism within the Greek system.
If someone isn’t there-- you can’t exactly reach out to them and befriend them, can you?
The last few companies I worked for had this as an excuse for various issues (not just race, but also gender, religion, ethnicity, etc.) Turns out that women also play golf- they just aren’t joining the department head’s regular golf game because they weren’t invited, not because “women aren’t interested in these sorts of things”. Turns out that black men also eat lunch-- many of them every day. And if you aren’t including them in team lunches “because we talk about stuff they don’t want to talk about”, or inviting them to have an informal lunch with a client-- then sure, you’ll have segregated lunch tables. And having a post-budget meeting celebration at a strip club is a really great way to make sure you don’t have to be sensitive to women’s feelings- because they aren’t going to be there in the first place.
I don’t buy the “like minded and have similar values” argument. Turns out that Asian women in business read the WSJ just like white men do. Etc. Similar values- what does that even mean in the context of the workplace? If you’re the CFO at a large public company, it’s pretty much a given that the members of your team have “similar values”, whether or not they are from the same racial or ethnic group.
College campuses- that’s where this whole canard begins. Distasteful jokes, hazing, daring people to drink to excess, assault- this is so wholesome and wonderful that we have to pretend that these practices should extend to the corporate cafeteria or work breakroom?
When I have more time I will try to read through all the ridiculous snooty comments, but from the 30 or so I’ve read from the top down there may have been two people that are actually familiar with the greek system at UA. From what I’ve seen so far is what I mentioned earlier about people just seeing the show and basing it off the sterotypes and judging an entire University of 40K students based on this agenda driven show. I will look more tomorrow to see if it changes
@blossom. I have no clue what you’re trying to get at with your reply. Feels like we were saying the same thing and honestly don’t know how anyone that has worked for a living anywhere would disagree with my statements. I wish we all lived in harmony and ate together and did after-work activities but that isn’t how it always is.
What is snooty about pointing out that someone is more likely to be the victim of sexual assault at a frat party vs. at a debate practice ? Nobody is making “content” about what happens behind closed doors at rehearsals of the chamber music ensemble-- because NOTHING is happening besides people playing chamber music. And maybe laughing when the viola player drops her bow-- “Joanne, you are such a klutz”.
The reactions of students, parents, administrators about the Greek system (across the country, not picking on UA here) suggests-- what, that there’s something to hide?